OH boy I sure do love purity checks. It’s worked out so great for us in the past.
Why is this shit always all or nothing, goddamn. It works for maga because they have no nuance and it’s all groupthink, but the rest of the nation is far more complex and won’t just go for a hard left progressive in the same way. It needs to happen but it won’t happen in a single election.
I am in no way endorsing newsome, but at least he’s doing LITERALLY ANYTHING.
Exactly, people tried that shit with Carney up here and we all knew we were not getting a progressive PM but we sure as hell didn’t get a right wing mini trump.
Could we have gotten better? For sure but desperate times man, desperate times…
Yeah I might not vote for him in the primary but its not a deal breaker.
…you expect the dems to run a progressive?
I fully expect to see a repeat of 2020. The party establishment will be split between Elderly Nepo-Ghoul With Fanatical Partisan Following and Young Pretty Boy Who Says Progressive Things To A Room Of Millennial Age Investment Bankers.
On the edge of the debate, you’ll see a few genuinely progressive leftist voices saying things like “We should be against genocide” and “Homelessness is easily solveable if we put forward even the least amount of political capital” and “Granting DC statehood is the most obviously smart and moral Act any future Congress can pass”. Maybe even a few “Medicare 4 All is still a good idea” die-hards shouting from the extremely cheap seats.
And then one (or both) of the insider candidates will pick up a few of the more popular slogans as their own. This, while denouncing any of the fringe voices as Anti-White Racists, Politically Toxic Far-Left Anti-Capitalists, Eco-Terrorists, and Fat Ugly Unfuckable Losers.
Come primary day, said fringe leftists will do shockingly well in some of the early states. At this point, the centrist candidates will panic, drop the kabuki of intra-party squabbling, align behind whomever the current Party Elder tells them to select, scream that a vote for Fringe Candidate is a vote for Fascism, blanket the airwaves with a deafening smear campaign, disavow every nice thing they said up until this point, and maybe squeak in to the convention by a few points on a technicality about who gets to be Superdelegates.
The Convention will be a coronation of a rotten corporate homunculus. Any leftist disgusted by the process or the annointed candidate will be denounced as a Far-Right Foreign Plant designed to undermine the fundamental principles of democracy itself. Said rotten homunculus will pick a Token Minority/Progressive as their running mate, then immediately dump that person to the sidelines and campaign exclusively with the reanimated corpse of Rush Limbaugh.
Trump wins by a ten point margin in 2028. Leftists are blamed for the loss. Democrats vow to purge their party of anything resembling progressive values or human decency even harder. By 2032, they’re running a Bitcoin Billionaire in an uncontested primary, because it’s unreasonable to trust an election process that’s been infiltrated by Hamas.
This is exactly why they’ll run him.
Do I like seeing him fuck with Trump? Yes.
Is he a dirty neo liberal? Yes.
Would I support him in a primary for President in 2028? Probably not. I sure hope someone better shows up.
Would I support him if he won the Democratic primary? Yes. Assuming we get elections. Assuming the DNC hasn’t fully fractured and a third party candidate cannot reasonably win.
Would he fix our country? No. See item 2.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Its not hard, people.
Good take. Maybe the Kamala protest abstainers will have a fresh enough dose of Trumpism to remember that halfway-kind-of-decent-sometimes is better than literally-the-worst-possible-decision-at-all-times. I hope we still have elections. I hope we are not stuck with Newsom as the only choice. But if we are, he IS the only choice, and even though he’s not nearly a progressive, he is far closer to it than whatever the GOP rolls out with in 3 years (whether it is Trump again, Trump Jr., Vance, or a new piece of shit far right authoritarian). We need to make sure he wins, and that means getting your asses to the booth. All of us. Even you.
Goddam. You guys sure love hoping someone else learns lessons. You ever hope democrats learn a little something?
I very clearly said that I hope we are not stuck with him. Hoping that Dems get their shit together and act right or at least get out of the waybof those who do is a constant state for me.
The democrats weren’t the ones that stayed home during the most important election of their lives. Just saying…
No, they’re the ones who failed to win that election. They’re the ones who willfully did everything they could to avoid taking principled positions and connecting with voters. Will they do it again? You betcha. Go ahead and be mad at millions of people, or demand a bit more from the couple of hundred of your “leaders” whose entire job it is to win elections.
Wish I had your faith in American voters.
I’m not sure how to take your comment in this context. Do you have more faith in the dem party to run popular and successful campaigns? Whether you have faith in the voters or not, you still need to get them to vote for you.
So, you think that if the Dems run a candidate with principled stances and popular positions that people would support them.
I have no such faith in the American voter. They can’t tell the difference between principles and propaganda, and they have no idea what’s good for them.
Boy howdy! I sure learned my lesson! And I’ll bet you must be happy as the day is long that the millions of Americans hurt by the questionable decision to allow good to be the enemy of perfect have also learned that lesson right alongside the rest of us.
Thank you so much for the tough love you brought down on us all. I’m sure we’re all going to be so much better from it once we’re done morning our losses and are once again allowed to be seen in public.
Aw shucks pardner, you’ve convinced me to vote against my conscience! Adding my vote will surely put us over the top. What’s that? We need to convince millions more? Well, okay, sure seems like it might be easier to scare a few politicians into doing what’s right, but I’m down to hear your plan. The plan is to gaslight and browbeat people who recognize the moral bankruptcy in the Democratic party until they just vote for them anyway? Can I at least pretend that genocidal dementia patients like Joe Biden are actually “the most progressive president in history”? I can? Damn, I’m really understanding the attraction now!
Cool story! I hope for your sake, history repeats itself. And if it helps, from what I understand, the suffering of others is a lot more tolerable when you lack the empathy it takes to think of anyone but yourself.
Good luck! And welcome to my block list.
I also have noticed that literally 0 of the “we can’t vote for Democrats, stop voting for them, that is the way to progress” strategists have anything to say about candidates to support before the primary, protest organizations to join in the meantime, anything generally productive that is outside of the general election they’re so gung-ho about giving their input to.
Right now would be the time to be looking around for good midterm or primary candidates who aren’t corporate whores, talking up third parties or reforms that would make third parties viable, all that kind of stuff. Nope. Just “let the Republicans win” in the general election, and then, crickets. And now occasionally popping up to shit on Gavin Newsom when he’s tangling with Trump, like a romantic partner who is grabbing on your arm and screaming “stop it!” while you’re in the middle of a fistfight. Just fuckin’ helping, the lot of them, from morning till night.
Many of the fake “leftist” that refuse to vote, have also never voted and don’t know how elections work. Dig around on Lemmy enough and you’ll find whole arguments with several hundred people that have no clue what a primary is. I know because I’ve been involved with trying to educate them. I’ve learned to just ignore idiots. Similar to other sites, I just had higher expectations for Lemmy.
They aren’t Americans and probably not “leftist”
“halfway-kind-of-decent-sometimes”
You mean the same person that refused to say “Genocide is bad, and we shouldn’t support it”? The same person who proudly stood behind Biden when was bombing innocent people? The same person who put people in prison for marijuana, then laughed about it when talking about smoking herself? The same person who campaigned with the Cheneys?
I think your definition of “halfway-kind-of-decent-sometimes” might be different than mine. All we’re looking for is someone who isn’t a monster, and she couldn’t even pull that off.
This is why the Democrats keep losing, and have such a low approval rating: They keep normalizing monsters, and can’t figure out why the voters don’t like that.
I mean someone who will not literally destroy our democracy to remain in power. The bare minimum.
You mean the people from the DNC who pretty openly refuse to have fair elections? The same party that has shit on civil rights for decades? How is that not destroying our Democracy?
You’re right. Better to just actively or indirectly (through inaction) support the party that is currently actively revoking civil rights on a national scale, and planning to rig/end elections to stay in power indefinitely. That will fix the broken system.
That will fix the broken system.
That’s what gets me about this whole thing. There’s plenty of core of truth to the idea that the Democrats are very bad, although yes the alternative currently is infinitely worse. There are thousands of things that any given person could do to try to fix that or work for better things in American politics. Refusing to elect Democrats anymore, no matter what, is 0 of them, and will make things quite a lot worse.
It’s like punishing your child for bad grades by refusing to feed them anymore. One, it doesn’t address the problem, two, it will make even the thing you say you are upset about and trying to fix, infinitely worse.
Functionally, things are the way they are because the people that want to change things for the better do not make up the majority of people yet. Plenty of the boomers are still happy with the status quo since most of it doesn’t directly impact them. Gen X even was more right leaning than the boomers in 2024.
Just looking at the number of people that actually vote, neo-liberal boomers and Gen Xers will still be dictating policy for another decade at the least. If they aren’t progressive, most of the policy getting passed will not be either.
This isn’t even taking into account the way that land has more power than people in the US either. Sparsely populated red states hold just as much power in the Senate as New York or California. The House is currently capped on the number of Representatives as well, meaning that those small red states are over represented and larger blue and purple states are underrepresented.
The best shot at changing anything before another decade passes is by starting locally to each of us. We can try to do what New York City did and implement an alternative voting system in our own cities, that will help immensely to get more people like Mamdani in office. If we garner enough support at the city and local levels, we might even be able to be like Maine or Alaska and get an alternative voting system in place at the state level.
Alternative voting systems are pretty much the only real way third parties will have a chance to get off the ground and have a seat at the table on a national level. The main reason for that is because it helps mitigate the spoiler effect; where your preferred candidate and the safe candidate knock each other out allowing your least preferred candidate to win elections.
Want to help? Get the word out about alternative voting systems and organizations that promote them. Get involved locally.
Underrepresented Fediverse Social Media Accounts:
Involvement Links:
Who said to do that? I certainly didn’t. I push for parties that and actions that are actually trying to do something against the current party. The Democrats are the ones that have spent their time propping up and actively supporting the current party.
You started this conversation by advocating for not voting for Newsom if he is the only candidate with a chance against the GOP. If your “other parties” have fractional support of the democrats come general election day, they’re not viable alternatives and your vote for them is functionally identical to not voting at all.
By all means, I 100% support advocacy for change, for reform, for new people and ideas in power. But we also have a shitty voting system that means you usually need to pick the least of two evils come election day. And you need to be practical and make peace with that. I wish we had something like Approval voting where there was no push to a two party split and everyone could vote for every candidate or party they like, and I would support voting reform in that direction all day every day, but that is not what we have now.
Hard disagree. The voters very clearly do like monsters.
Some do, sure. But the two major parties have only put monsters on the ballot for the past few decades, so we don’t really know how many would pick a non-monster given the chance.
Parties didn’t put those politicians on the ballot, voters did. The Democratic party got rid of smoke filled rooms and contested conventions in the 1970’s and the Republican party followed suit in the 1980’s.
If you are disatisfied with the pols on offer, you have only to look to your neighbors.
The voters are often just as behind at times as the politicians they put into office. The lion’s share of the voters are neo-liberal Boomers and Gen Xers, of which the Gen Xers are more conservative than the boomers as of 2024.
We’re not going to look much different for ant least another decade unless suddenly a ton of Millennials and Zoomers show up to vote in record breaking numbers.
Changing our voting systems locally and on the state level is the best chance we have at making a difference within the next 10 years, imo. It opens up access for third parties to grow and it lets progressive have a better chance of squeaking out wins against the neo-liberal incumbents.
Ranked choice voting is a good idea, but time will not save us. Millenians are shifting right, just a decade behind other generations.
lol, you mean the same DNC that said “…the DNC charter’s promise of ‘impartiality and evenhandedness’ as a mere political promise—political rhetoric that is not enforceable in federal courts.” ?
The same party that openly rigged the past two elections for the candidates that they wanted?
Rigged how? Do you think they flipped votes? Who got more primary delegates? Sanders? Biden? Or Clinton?
I desperately wish it was this straightforward to the majority of people who shape our future in this country.
I am firmly convinced that most of our population doesn’t have internal language, no internal tools for abstracting ideas into mental words for comparison and evaluation, and just spout rhetoric by instinct. Literally, this is why everyone seems so stupid… they’ve changed the way their minds work by scrolling all day, every day, and not socializing and not changing habits.
Nuance is something that you can only arrive at if you have this mental narrative tool that lets you see multiple angles of an issue.
This means that our future of politics is going to be entirely grifters riding on this fact and creating over-the-top caricatures and WWE theater style politics. And people will eat it up because everyone just wants something to be all-in for or all-against so they can fight with the opposing fans. We’re so fucking cooked.
Yeah it can’t be that people are frustrated about living in a country where they’re in a permanent minority and will never be happy with their government.
Thank you for the non-sequitur response. I will return in kind with “Banana kneecap caterpillar establishment.”
Libs and dismissing any criticism from progressives. Can’t name a more iconic duo.
I am dismissing your complete lack of effort in engaging with a point, if it makes you feel better to think of someone who called that shit out as a “lib” then have it, meanwhile I will continue to rally people behind the point that a third of our population is too stupid with to continue to engage with using the same liberal political methods of inclusion and mediocrity and financial status-quo. I don’t know where that leaves you, but please do it over there on the other side of the curb.
You said people are stupid and lack a sense of nuance.
I pointed out that people are frustrated and don’t give a fuck about nuance anymore, and that’s why we’re fucked.
Sorry I didn’t spell that out for you.
Yes, you do have to make an effort to connect topics when communicating.
And sure, there is a problem with apathy, but that’s not THE problem. The last three presidential elections have seen the highest voter turnout in American history, it’s not a problem with people not caring as much as being too easily swayed to care about the wrong things, and this comes from a lack of education, lack of language skills, lack of cognitive ability broadly. When you say “People are too frustrated to care about nuance” yes, this IS stupidity. Stupidity isn’t some magic potion, it’s caused by things. In this case, it’s been designed by corporate interests using fascism to further this goal of a dumb, easily manipulated population.
This is the way.
Reddit just called me a Republican plant for not liking newsom. Before the primaries have even started. Pisses me off
Remember when we were told that we could criticize Dems during non-election years?
Or primaries were the time to have debate, but I guess that too has gone out the window with the DNC tiping the scales since 2016.
Nope. But I don’t list to those trying to control me.
I vote, and not for fascists.
Exactly. Like, I’m not going to be happy if he gets nominated, but I will vote for him. But before primaries is the time to debate and find the best candidates
Clearly you are in favor of an oceanic based monarchy.
Poseidon?
It’s the “if you don’t like Biden you’re a Russian troll” all over again. It’s started.
It’s happening here too
You Americans don’t learn, constantly punching left, nobody is good enough to be an ally. While the right is unified and eating your lunch
Punching Newsom is punching up. Telling voters they are wrong to criticize him in regards to economics, Zionism, LQBTQ rights, and social safety nets IS punching left.
This is true to an extent, but when you look at the history of the moral majority (new right movement) and what actually unified the right, it should give you some context about how the Dems aren’t really doing themselves any favors by distancing themselves from progressive values. The right were always willing to offer some concessions to what were once considered fringe voters (and now is essentially the base of the Republican party) in exchange for their vote.
I say this as someone who is almost always willing to vote blue no matter who, continuously catering to the wealthy and failing to follow through on promises is going to be the nail in the coffin for Democrats (and possibly American democracy in general). Midterms will probably be their last chance to get it right (if we’re even allowed to vote) and they are definitely not off to a good start by giving the cold shoulder to Mamdani.
It’s very hard to battle voter apathy and “both sides” disinformation when Democrats will not even acknowledge that much of what progressives are asking for is pretty reasonable. Establishment Dems seem to believe once they’re accused of cultural marxism (which btw is a term that was popularized by the same people that created the moral majority/new right) they will lose centrists voters that might help them gain an edge over the competition. Meanwhile they seem to be oblivious to all the support on the left that they’re absolutely hemorrhaging.
Some of that support is going to the right (and those are the people Gavin Newsome seemed really be worried about reaching with his podcast that “reached across the aisle” to some absolutely vile people), but a big chunk is being lost to people who just no longer see a point in bothering to vote for an establishment that seems to intentionally exclude and dismiss them.
He’s not on the left though. He only ran as a dem because he is in California and Republicans have no chance there
Can you show your work on this?
You want me to go though his entire polical history to show how he’s only on the side of whatever he thinks is popular instead of being principled?
Proof goes hand-in-hand with credibility.
So yes you do on a thread about this article?
https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/2023/11/gavin-newsom-is-not-a-progressive
Or you just want it from other sources?
You said this:
He only ran as a dem because he is in California and Republicans have no chance there
Prove it.
Newsom was sworn in by his father and pledged to bring his business experience to the board.[23] Brown called Newsom “part of the future generation of leaders of this great city”.[23] Newsom described himself as a “social liberal and a fiscal watchdog”.[23][24] He was elected to a full four-year term to the board in 1998. San Francisco voters chose to abandon at-large elections to the board for the previous district system in 1999. Newsom was reelected in 2000 and 2002 to represent the second district, which includes Pacific Heights, the Marina, Cow Hollow, Sea Cliff and Laurel Heights, which had San Francisco’s highest income level and highest Republican registration.[25] Newsom paid $500 to the San Francisco Republican Party to appear on the party’s endorsement slate in 2000 while running for Supervisor.[26] He was reelected.[27]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Newsom
You want more?
I believe what I believe, and whoever shares my values, will get my support. Compromising on my values to get some kind of “strategic alliances” is something I don’t do. If you look across the world and across history, that generally doesn’t end well in the long term.
Bruh what do you think political parties are?
Unions, national alliances, society… It’s all people compromising on their individual values.
Good for you for letting perfect be the enemy of good, bet you feel so vindicated as the world burns down around you.
And where did partisan politics bring us to? The world is burning down around us even without my help. I think this validates my point.
As long as you vote for someone I don’t care whether you choose the candidate that I would vote for. There’s no wasted votes, I’ve voted 3rd party when the major candidates aren’t someone I can vote for in good conscience.
If you abstain on “principle” because there isn’t a politician that perfectly aligns with your values then yeah, you’re just dumb and you’re part of the problem.
About 60% of the country votes in the general election, much less in the primaries, and much, much less in local elections. People that don’t vote because they can’t be assed suck, but the ones that sit on a high horse and scoff at the system that they play a huge hand in perpetuating through some misguided moral high ground are literally the worst.
I dunno, I’d say the left tried it your way in 2016 and 2024 and how’s that working out?
Don’t care. Way better than fascism and besides, the tweets are hilarious.
Friend I don’t give a fuck I just don’t want to live in hell anymore. I’m going to be first in line slamming my fist on the table for a progressive but apparently we need to be at Gavin Newsom before we can ask for a progressive. Lemmy and Current Affairs isn’t the average American. We suck. That’s abundantly clear to me now. You know what? If Mandani or similar figure was running for president I’m all in. I’m all in on that no matter what. I’m in for the most progressive candidate at all times. Unfortunately right now I just need to not be under threat of everything completely falling apart and not being fixable. Maslow’s hierarchy I need that first foundational level to build my pyramid on. I don’t necessarily mean this to convince anyone, sometimes you just have to yell into the void because it all feels so bad.
Damn, .ml is starting their crap early. They already got trump back in, now they are working to get more of the GOP in power by fomenting infighting…reruns suck.
Thinking that an unliked party putting forward a candidate, who’s only nominating quality is a second order connection to Obama, lost because of a triad of leftist servers on lemmy is genuinely delusional.
More referring to their CCP overlords’ general efforts. They are just the mouthpieces and bots.
I’m not. If there’s a Bernie or AOC like candidate vs Newsom, I’m voting for the Bernie AOC candidate. I’ve played it safe the last 3 elections I, no longer care if it hurts Dems chances because Dems have had their assses handed to them and were already in hell. I want someone who is going to fight Republicans and help get policies we actually want and they will fucking despise
I voted for Bernie every time. It didn’t do anything. This is where we are. I’ll vote for the most progressive candidate who is on the ballot, but if it’s Newsom versus Trump I’m not going to purity test gatekeep.
As amazing as a Bernie , AOC America won’t let them win. America is too racist, and misogynistic to ever let that happen.
The path to progressivism does not run through assholes like Gavin Newsom. “Lesser-evilism” has brought us to Trump!
Pretty sure greater evilism brought us trump.
It’s another way of looking at it. You’re always going to have a fascist element in society who loves the “greater evil”. Maybe we should demand more than “not quite as bad” to represent the opposition. Every time the “lesser evil” manages to win and then disappoints people, it demoralizes its own electorate. Every time the dems move rightward on issues, they push the “greater evil” even further right. This is how “lesser-evilism” helps bring us to where we are now.
So, I don’t think you are entirely wrong, but I think you (and by extension, all americans) are out of luck on that front. There is not a single democratic candidate who, if elected with a supermajority in congress and a supportive supreme court, that would turn around the economic situation in the US from the course it’s on.
You can get some wins with social issues and foreign policy, and tinker around the edges of the economy, but even if Sanders or AOC became dictators tomorrow, their stated goals, while being light years ahead of Trump or any Republican, would not reverse the decline in living standards for the majority of Americans.
For the issues most Americans care about most, their pocket book, lesser evil is all there is or will be for the foreseeable future.
The lesser evil gets more evil every cycle. Foreign policy is the least likely to change between administrations. We are watching how an executive can wield power in spite of the courts and legislature.
Let’s be clear, the courts and legislature could stop this, they choose not to. They are captured. When/if a Democrat reaches the White House again they will not have half the power that Trump wields.
(The courts are a little iffy, but I’m still confident the legislature could stop it if they wanted)
Could they? By what mechanism?
It is more nuanced like that. You and I are not the average American voter. We can’t assume all voters will act like us. We have to play the field and represent our true ideals as much as possible in balance.
Show me the average American voter. I know a lot of people, but I’ve never met the average one.
I assume you think that’s a gotcha to me, but “average voter” is a phrase, not a specific person. It’s meant to describe the general zeitgeist/trend of what most people are doing. Most people are not strong progressives by leftist Lemmy standards. That’s fairly non-controversial. I’m trying to engage in good faith here.
I don’t mean it as a gotcha. It’s meant to make you reconsider what I see as an unhelpful way of looking at people. If you think in terms of averages instead of in terms of people, I think you lose sight of what you’re trying to achieve. You can think in terms of average (or common) problems people have, and speak to those.
You’re not wrong
Don’t care. He’s not a fascist and that’s enough right now.
This is a huge problem in mindset in my opinion. Yes he’s better than Trump. But I can grab a random person off the streets and they’d probably clear that bar. Our economic and political systems will always pool power into fewer and fewer peoples hands. We need drastic rethinking of how our society is going to work because Newsom will 100% sales out the American people when the rubber meets the profits. The old system are dead. We are just experiencing the symptoms and only wanting to stop the pain. Not cure the sickness.
Do you know what a primary is?
He also wants to win an election in 2028 not pander to left wing donors in 2025.
Not to mention avoiding the mistakes Harris made. It is perfectly clear that it is impossible to veer left enough to stop the left from attacking you for not veering far enough to the left.
It’s just as clear it is impossible to veer right enough to scrape a single vote off the republican ticket. The left will criticize, but veer left and at least some will hold their noses and (protest sign in hand) vote anyway.
He’s rather brazenly pro-Israel. That is not a winning strategy for a Democratic candidate. Israel lost the public referendum, with something like a single-digit % of Democratic voters supporting the genocidal state. Time to accept this and move forward.
AIPAC and none of that shit matters if a significant segment of your voting base will outright reject you.
Nope he’s not. But he’s not as bad as trump.
As a Californian, Newsom is just the other side of Trump’s coin. He has no principles. He puts his finger in the wind before he does anything. I’d vote for literally any other Democrat first. It’s not about him being a Progressive or not. It’s that he’d pursue literally any position if it was advantageous to him, including hard right ones.
I don’t give a shit. Anyone effectively getting under the skin of that demented pedophile should be encouraged to do so. Fuck these purity tests.
Newsom is your average neoliberal. As much as I like seeing someone troll Krasnov it’s important to remember that neoliberals are not going to help anyone but themselves and their corporate donors.
I’ll take the neo-liberal over the outright nazi fascist, thanks
Well, history has shown that your fellow Americans do not agree with you. There is plenty of time to find a candidate that will actually be popular with voters
History actually shows that crying “that candidate isn’t progressive enough” ends in actual fascism.
Exactly.
Progressives should learn their place and do what they’re told.
It’s not like there’s enough of us to change things.
Who benefits from this anti-Newsom rhetoric? Trump and Co, not progressives.
What’s anti-Newsom about getting progressives ready to hold their nose as usual?
Besides, he’s not even the nominee and maybe making him look bad will get some other liberal the win.
Congrats, you’ve fallen into the divided party trap. Or is the trap what you’re actually pushing?
Who benefits from this anti-Newsom rhetoric?
People with the ability to reason, and if we have a primary, to choose the best candidate.
I suppose in the same way that tornado sirens always ends in a tornado tearing through a trailer park. But I’m sure that this centrist liberal will finally be the one to beat fascism
Keep doing the fascist’s work for them
Yeah but he’s one of the few Democrats actually doing something against Trump and co.
What’s he actually doing? Having his social media manager write zingers for him? I’m sure Trump is so scared.
He’s been pushing back in a lot of ways. I don’t like him and would vote against him in a primary, but I’d absolutely vote for him if he wins the nomination.
As to what he’s done, here are a few things off the top of my head:
- Began the process of redistricting CA to offset what TX is doing.
- Sued to keep the national guard from being deployed to LA.
- Pushed back on repeal of the EV mandate.
Again, I don’t like him. He’s slimy. I still will vote for him if he’s nominated.
Writing mean tweets, so that’s all that needs to be done according to them.
Hmm, who do I support: Someone who I don’t necessarily agree with on every issue or the guy actively working to destroy my country and those of our allies? Tough call.
He might not be a progressive but he’s not a Russian cum rag, so speaking as a member of a (for the moment) allied country, he is lightyears ahead of your current guy.
So sick of the division amongst the left. He is far from perfect, but I’d much rather take a neoliberal over a fascist.
Jesus Christ he hasn’t even announced he’s running yet. Why are we already pretending these are the only two alternatives?
We don’t need to choose a neoliberal over a fascist… we can push for someone better.
I’ve never tried to choose the neoliberal but I’ve never not had to vote for them.
If it’s not Newsom then it’ll be someone else I don’t like.
Do we need to start the purity tests already, though? I don’t like Newsom and would vote against him in most any primary but I will absolutely vote for him over Trump or any other current republican. I can’t name a single republican I’d vote for at this point because they’re all complicit.
Yes. People won’t vote against him if we don’t articulate our criticisms against him.
He’s a bad governor who is widely disliked in California. This carnival show he’s putting on is his only claim to fame and it depends on democrats in other states not knowing anything else about him or his record.
Like, I don’t understand the implications of what you’re saying here. That we can’t criticize any politician who’s not a fascist? How is that a reasonable strategy?
I’m not saying that we can’t criticize but does it need to start now? Can’t it wait until we see who the field of candidates are so we can avoid tarring the candidates before they even start debating? I am mainly worried that the democrats are going to rip themselves apart again before campaign season even starts.
I completely disagree. This is the best time to be brutally honest so that bad candidates don’t launch and it’s easier to have a united front once most voters start paying attention during the campaign.
I’ve lived under Newsom (and to be clear, voted for him over republicans every time) so I don’t need to see him debate or anything to make up my mind about him. He blocked more progressive legislation in California than the republicans here did. He’s also a rich, corrupt slime ball who has nothing but disdain for ordinary people. He’s not a good candidate.
He’s also a rich, corrupt slime ball who has nothing but disdain for ordinary people. He’s not a good candidate.
Completely agree with 100% of this. I hate that he’s sort of the default “big white guy face of the Democrats.” But also, I like that he’s at least making some substantive effort to fuck up Trump’s attempt to seize control of the country and throw all his enemies into the camps. I wish there were a few more people in power who were doing that. If he’s only doing it because he’s being a ponce who wants to make a name for himself, fuckin’ great, I hope he gets turbo narcissism tomorrow and starts doing it twice as hard.
There needs to be a united front to get Trump out. Newsom is welcome to join in, and at least he’s bringing the fight to MAGA and not just whining. And I say this as someone who despises Newsom’s sleazy corporate centrist politics.
But I’m going to keep pushing for progressives, and even more, for grassroots organizing outside the Democratic Party. The Dems will only change when events force them to.
Primaries haven’t even started yet for the fucking midterms. This is exactly the time for purity tests.
How about we start with a primary race? When was the last time the democrats ran a presidential primary that didn’t come across as a fait accompli? Maybe 2007?
With all due respect, as I understand where this sentiment comes from, that is how Trump gained momentum and won.
I think the blue no matter who approach has failed more than worked considering Hillary failed, Biden did win but really it was more Trump lost, Kamala lost (she got a shit deal yeah but still neolib vs unchained Trump should have been a no contest) and going further back Gore and Kerry lost to Bush. Clinton basically was the centrist Republican neolib that got Dems a roadmap that they keep to this day.
The time for half measures is over and the DNC needs to adapt or they will end up like the Whig Party. If you dont believe me look at their approval right now, No one likes the Democrats
Newsom is an establishment figure and telling the next generation of voters this is going to be a candidate for change won’t yield the results you think.
With all due respect, as I understand where this sentiment comes from, that is how Trump gained momentum and won.
Trump gained momentum and won because the people in this country don’t know their ass from their elbow in terms of what is happening, and their whole picture of politics is based on confusion and incredibly effective weaponized propaganda.
You presented a child with a pretty unappealing fast food burger that had gone cold anyway, and a big lump of shit laced with (and labeled as) rat poison, and then he selected the shit and ate the whole thing. And your reaction is, “Well the burger should have been better.” I mean, it’s not at all an incorrect statement. But I feel like the way it played out should be automatic proof that the burger quality wasn’t the core of the issue.
I would say the citizens that experienced the fall out from NAFTA that gutted blue collar jobs and created the rust belt would say “the big lump of shit with rat poison” was the Democrats that threw the working class overboard years ago.
Speaking of poison, it is the same reason residents of Michigan would rather vote Trump because the Democratic party and Obama would rather gaslight them about their water being safe to drink instead of charging the corporations that cut costs that polluted the water with federal charges. Obama also bailed out Wall Street and left hard working Americans with a shell of an American dream.
The core of the issue is the Democrats use to be for the everyday man and they lost their way and eroded trust, that will never be gained back. What that leaves voters in fly over states with is a choice to vote their better interest or have a candidate that “tells it like it is” aka lie and get back at the party that screwed them over.
It’s not as black and white when you’re in the thick of it, as difficult as it is to reason with that base.
The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing people he didn’t exist. The greatest trick the Republican party pulled was convincing people that its most unpopular ideas are entirely Democrats’ fault.
NAFTA was championed by, majority supported, and voted in by mostly Republicans. It was ultimately bipartisan, but Democrats were significantly more opposed to it than Republicans (of Republican Congress members, only 10 in the Senate and 43 in the House voted against it; of Democrats, 28 in the Senate and 156 in the House voted against it).
This isn’t to say that NAFTA is objectively bad policy; most economists argue that it ultimately benefited the whole country. However it did expose US manufacturing to significant competition, reduced bargaining power for manufacturing workers, and shocked communities which were solely reliant on the sector to support them. Larger cities were mostly unaffected due to their more diverse economies, and in many cases thrived off increased trade and lower prices for goods. As a reminder, urbanites trend Democrat, rural folk trend Republican.
The trope that urban liberals successfully screwed over rural conservatives just isn’t true. Instead it seems that, at screwing themselves over, urban liberals failed and rural conservatives succeeded.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1031/vote_103_1_00395.htm https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/1993575
The greatest trick the Republican party pulled was convincing people that its most unpopular ideas are entirely Democrats’ fault.
That’s called being politically savvy and out playing your competition which is why the Democratic party is always in free fall.
All this back and forth leads to this point: The Democrats are not equipped to handle a full assault of our democracy and thinking Gavin Newsom is the guy with some funny parrot tweets is not a real answer.
Oh, I’m not saying anything about Newsom, just trying to dispel some sadly common misinformation about NAFTA. I’ve yet to form a solid opinion of the guy, but I’m not without cynical biases, so he’s got an uphill battle to win in my mind.
When you don’t have a choice that didn’t back NAFTA then you vote for the ones who are currently saying it sucks. Not the ones pointing to obscure economic indicators and saying everything is fine.
Sure. But let’s set the record straight: blue collar jobs in the States didn’t suffer because “Democrat bad and hate workers!” That’s a myth perpetuated by politicians who would manipulate us for their own gain, Republican and Democrat alike.
In meantime we gotta figure out what to do with a ball of shit filled with rat poison.
It’s also relevant that Biden did more for blue collar jobs in the States than anyone since Lyndon Johnson. Along with climate change, it’s something he actually took seriously and fought for, and achieved some success with, which made him a massive outlier in the party of Clinton and Chuck Schumer and all those assholes. How he got that through our current congress, I have absolutely no idea.
And, of course, no one really noticed, because our media is awful and people on social media have no idea what they’re talking about. Even the “sophisticated” left has still been talking about it as if none of that or the climate action had happened.
When choosing between more worse and less worse, it makes sense to vote for less worse.
What’s infuriating is that we can’t vote for better because it doesn’t exist.
A cold fast food burger would have been miles ahead of what we were offered. Democrats wouldn’t even say “Genocide is bad, and we shouldn’t support it”. They continuously gaslight Americans on the economy. They support the bombing of kids, and torture programs. They expand out the Republican’s surveillance programs.
It’s not a choice of a burger vs shit, it’s a vomit vs shit
I think a big issue is that money and religion have deep ties in the US. Taking a hard stance against Israel at that point in time would cost votes in purple states; it was the right thing to do, but it would have lost votes. Given there are full on pacs that track each candidate on how much they openly support Israel I have no doubt they would have used money and influence to push them on it.
I think the issues with the economy were that it was still rocked by Covid and the after effects of it. Not having enough votes in the Senate meant nothing could get passed to help the people. Having the Supreme Court stacked by Republicans meant that even student loan forgiveness was shot down.
Really it’s more like a burger that covered in crap. If we want the burger remade to taste right then Democrats needed to win big in 2024. The opposite happened. Democrats lost House seats, Senate seats, and the Presidency. Any positive change now pretty much requires big wins now in 2026 and 2028 to be big wins for the Democratic Party.
For some perspective on how bad the losses for us were: if Democrats won a big trifecta in 2024, we could have uncapped the House, expanded the Supreme Court and set term limits, done away with the Filibuster to get important legislation passed, and even implemented legislation to tackle Gerrymandering across the nation. Just the uncapped House bit would have made it so elections are won by the Popular Vote.
Not having enough votes in the Senate meant nothing could get passed to help the people.
Yet there seemed enough votes to spend more money on foreign wars, and bailing out their rich friends. There also seemed to be enough political capital to take away the highly popular covid-benefits.
Having the Supreme Court stacked by Republicans meant that even student loan forgiveness was shot down.
That’s why he took that route: So that he could look like the good guy, while not actually fixing the problem.
Really it’s more like a burger that covered in crap.
Only if you think there is nutritional value in the Dems. I sure don’t see any.
For some perspective on how bad the losses for us were: if Democrats won a big trifecta in 2024, we could have uncapped the House, expanded the Supreme Court and set term limits, done away with the Filibuster to get important legislation passed, and even implemented legislation to tackle Gerrymandering across the nation. Just the uncapped House bit would have made it so elections are won by the Popular Vote.
Why would you expect any of that to happen? They’ve had the chance to fix these things in the past, and chose not to.
Yet there seemed enough votes to spend more money on foreign wars, and bailing out their rich friends. There also seemed to be enough political capital to take away the highly popular covid-benefits.
You’re right, as there is always funding available when it comes to international conflicts that relate to US interests, especially when certain Congress members districts make money hand over fist from those deals.
2020 is a prime example of Republicans bailing out their rich friends since they demanded that there be zero oversight for the several trillions of dollars going out to stimulate businesses.
The public is the least likely to get any assistance if there is not a Democratic trifecta, since Republicans notoriously will not cross party lines if it means giving Democrats a “win”. Because Democrats did not have big enough majorities in 2021, they were unable to secure additional Covid aid for people. Namely, having Sinema and Manchin, who are both Independents, did not help as they both refused to join with Democrats on bringing more aid. Meaning it was 48 D - 52 R in the Senate. This gridlocked meaningful legislation from passing.
That’s why he took that route: So that he could look like the good guy, while not actually fixing the problem.
They tried to pass regularly in the House and Senate, but they didn’t have the votes because Republicans voted against it and Independents like Manchin voted against it. That vote was 49 D - 50 R in the Senate.
So Biden was trying any way he could to get it passed. Biden actually did manage to get some student loan forgiveness passed, but not the mass amount that was hoped for because of the conservative Supreme Court.
Only if you think there is nutritional value in the Dems. I sure don’t see any.
I see that there is some value because they are trying to vote in policies that would actually help people, but they lack the votes to actually pass these things. I don’t see that as a fault of the legislators so much as an issue of us previously having given land so much more power than people in this country. When small states like Wyoming have as many Senators as big states like New York or California we end up in these situations where your voice matters more based on where you live.
I do see the Democratic Party itself slowly becoming more progressive as well as with the new influx in voters generally being more progressive than their parents or grandparents. Establishment Democrats are trying to push back against the progressives, since they see it as a threat to their seats, but frankly many of those politicians deserve to lose their seats for being actual do nothings.
Why would you expect any of that to happen? They’ve had the chance to fix these things in the past, and chose not to.
Mostly because the circumstances have changed. There used to be more buddy, buddy-ness in Congress, it wasn’t so hyper-partisan or was not visible to the old guard Democrats in Congress. Any guise of playing by the rules disappeared when Republicans broke their own made up rule to let a Supreme Court justice be added to the bench during an election year.
They didn’t have the votes to change many of those things in the past, and up until more of the early-2010s Democrats were still doing Gerrymandering themselves at times.
You’re right, as there is always funding available when it comes to international conflicts that relate to US interests…
Agreed. That’s why Biden spent his time helping out his military friends, and bombing the shit out of innocent people, instead of helping American voters.
2020 is a prime example of Republicans bailing out their rich friends since they demanded that there be zero oversight for the several trillions of dollars going out to stimulate businesses.
Agreed, and Biden’s bailouts were another prime example of the Democrats helping their rich friends too.
Because Democrats did not have big enough majorities in 2021, they were unable to secure additional Covid aid for people…Namely, having Sinema and Manchin, who are both Independents, did not help as they both refused to join with Democrats…
Well, that was the excuse they used:
They should have tried negotiating, but couldn’t be bothered to. They were busy helping out their friends. Biden also could have extended the covid relief, but chose not to.
So Biden was trying any way he could to get it passed.
Except for all the ways that would have actually worked. He could have just sent out the money, like he did with Israel. But he slow-rolled it, and sent it to the Supreme Court so they could shoot it down, and he could look like the good guy, without actually doing anything
I see that there is some value because they are trying to vote in policies that would actually help people, but they lack the votes to actually pass these things.
No, they had plenty of votes, but chose to pretend that they were powerless so that they didn’t have to do anything. Once again, it was clear that they could get shit done when it came to bombing kids, and helping out their rich friends, but couldn’t seem to muster up the energy when it came to the voters.
I do see the Democratic Party itself slowly becoming more progressive…
lolwut? The same party that campaigned with the Cheneys? that said they would keep bombing people oversees? That said they wanted more border controls, and are already backing down on support for LGBTQ+ people?
They didn’t have the votes to change many of those things in the past, and up until more of the early-2010s Democrats were still doing Gerrymandering themselves at times.
Yes they did. They just didn’t care because it wasn’t what their donors wanted.
Neoliberals Don’t oppose fascists.
He will work with the fascist to come up with a compromise that the fascists can live with. That probably means sacrificing vulnerable groups and rallying around right wing talking points.
He is right wing. Gavin newsom is just right wing. the fact that there’s a uneven deeper more belligerent right wing out there doesn’t mean that he is somehow an alternative to it.
This attitude is how you ended up electing Trump.
Its bonkers that you guys are spiralling into a dystopian shitscape day by day and just cant bring yourself to acknowledge that any alternative has to be better.
This is how I feel. I can’t stand neoliberals but some people on here are delusional for saying they won’t vote for Newsom if he is nominated.
It’s not only about voting, but the complaining.
It seems like the problem in the US is getting people to give a fuck. By spreading this narrative that the democrats are just slower fascists or whatever your just encouraging progressive voters not to vote.
Well then maybe the Democrats should do somthing to counter that claim. Maybe something like not supporting fascism, and actually fighting against it when they have the chance.
I’ve been voting for those alternatives for a quarter century and it hasn’t stopped the dystopian hellscape from happening.
That’s not really how voting works though.
An election is a poll or test or the collective will of citizens at a given point in time. Granted, in the US you have the electoral college fuckery overlaid on that but still …
Voting Blue but complaining about them to your compatriots is not the way.
Protesting about Gaza outside Democrat conventions in an election cycle is not the way to secure better outcome for Palestinians.
As long as. I am forced to vote Democratic I will complain about it because it’s bullshit and our government is stupid by design.
So your plan is to encourage others not to vote?
Seems counter productive.
There aren’t enough people like me to make a difference either way.
Progressives and socialists and weirdos are woefully outnumbered in this country, as shown by literally every election in my life.
Even if every single one voted we’d still lose and things would continue to get worse.
The Democrats refusing to acknowledge the desires of the voters, and actively screwing over workers is how we ended up with Trump. The Democrats are “better”, but only in the sense that they aren’t going to fix the problems that led to fascism. They’ve shown over and over that they’d rather support fascism, then fight against it.
just cant bring yourself to acknowledge that any alternative has to be better.
That is not true. Slower fascism isn’t appreciably better than faster fascism. The you of four or eight years in the future doesn’t have any less of a right to not live under fascism than the you of right now. If by choosing the “better” alternative you throw away your ability to actually stop fascism you’re missing the forest for the trees.
It’s disingenuous to characterise imperfect alternatives like Newsom as “slower fascism”. That’s a propaganda narrative.
In this case choosing the better alternative means preserving your ability to actually stop fascism.
Did you see the other headline today where your actual president mentioned avoiding elections by starting a war ?
It’s this type of “Harris is imperfect therefore the same as Trump” attitude that brought you to this juncture.
That’s a propaganda narrative.
Well you still didn’t refute it, so you should do that if you disagree with my propaganda narrative.
In this case choosing the better alternative means preserving your ability to actually stop fascism.
And where, pray tell, is that stopping? How do you intend to do it? I mean do you remember the wins the far-right got under Biden in red states? You’re clutching your pearls without offering a realistic plan to ultimately stop fascism. If your favorite neoliberal can’t fix American society such that the fascists don’t simply come back stronger four years later, you’re just kicking the can down the road and should let the people with an actual plan get to work.
Did you see the other headline today where your actual president mentioned avoiding elections by starting a war ?
Yes, and who exactly managed to fumble their campaign so bad they lost to this well-known fascist?
And this is all before we even look at Newsom’s actual policies. The way that guy treats homeless people is straight up fascism, full stop. If you can’t take a stand on that, why the fuck should anyone else take a stand for you?
Oh please. You don’t even have the concepts of a plan.
First, criminalizing homelessness is fascism. If you can’t take a stand for the homeless how can you expect anyone to take a stand for you? You thibk he won’t throw you under the bus if it’s politically expedient? Second, do you intend to repeat the same song and dance that got Trump elected twice? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Third, why are you compromising from now? Like come on it’s still 2025, even if you’re going to vote blue no matter who, now you should be projecting strength not compliance.
vote blue no matter who
Literally the only time I hear this is from people on Lemmy who are trying to criticize some potential ally by being embittered.
Nobody is talking about voting for Gavin Newsom. We’re talking about it being good that he’s irritating Trump by taking concrete steps to preserve our democracy. You would be the guy in the revolution who’s constantly trying to root out “counterrevolutionaries” in the ranks and snitching people to the secret police because they’re not revolutionary enough, right during the run-up to the big battle to see if the movement can even survive.
Nobody is talking about voting for Gavin Newsom.
The article is pretty explicitly talking about that, and the parent comment of this thread is responding to that by saying they’d “much rather take a neoliberal over a fascist.” If you’re not talking about voting for Gavin Newsom, you’re in the wrong thread.
Back in 2023, when this article was written when we were trying to figure out who to vote for, it made perfect sense to talk about that. Now that people are talking about how to not get thrown into concentration camps for being a Democrat, people are talking about something different.
The fact that one of the most infamous of the “anti Biden all the time” trolls elected to suddenly become nail-bitingly concerned about Newsom’s progressive credentials, and repost this thing from a whole nother pre-CECOT era as if it was relevant, doesn’t change what people are talking about presently, present tense.
I’m aware that you would like them to be talking about various holes and nitpicks in Newsom’s agenda and reasons why he is deeply problematic, and change the subject away from reasons why he is in the news, present tense. Who knows, you may succeed, it worked gangbusters in the last election and I see no reason to think it would stop working now.
I disagree with your argument, but more relevantly this whole comment chain is predicated on the assumption that “Newsom is not your friend” is a position worth debating. If you don’t agree with this assumption, the place to make that point would be a parent comment, maybe a reply to a parent comment. As it stands your response has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.
I’m aware that it has nothing to do with what you’re talking about. I’m making a whole different point, directly addressing what you’re talking about but from a different point of view (distinct from “what ‘we’ are talking about” in your parlance). That’s generally how it works.
Oh fuck you, you tell the left they can’t critisize these people during elections and now we’re not supposed to critisize them aftet elections too? When are we supposed to ask for things that keep us from dying then? You’re part of the problem.
It’s really simple.
You criticise the government of the day, whoever they may be.
You do not criticise your own side when they’re not in government or running for election.
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Leftists: “Democratic politicians are feckless. They need to get on social media to call out Trump’s bullshit on daily basis! When is a leader going to step up?!”
Somewhere, a finger curls on a monkey’s paw.
Calling him out on social media is absolutely not what I want and is definitely feckless.
He threw trans people under the bus, and there’s no way in hell I’m voting for that.
