“This ban is a massive win for Texas ranchers, producers, and consumers,” Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller said in a statement following the bill’s passage. “Texans have a God-given right to know what’s on their plate, and for millions of Texans, it better come from a pasture, not a lab. It’s plain cowboy logic that we must safeguard our real, authentic meat industry from synthetic alternatives.”
…
Texas joins Indiana, Mississippi, Montana and Nebraska in enacting new laws this year; Alabama and Florida did so last year. In March, the Oklahoma House approved a similar bill that did not advance out of the Senate this session.
Free market my fucking ass
You are free to bribe a politician and influence the market all you want /s
Freedom to fuck over certain groups of people who threaten their power. So brave.
I mean, I am all in for labeling, but banning it? Is that what’s happening? why would anyone do that
Protectionism for meat companies is why.
If the meat companies had any sense, they’d be pushing for and funding it. That much moneyh and not owning the competition is just flat out stupid.
Exactly, they would profit more from planting whatever crop is needed to supply raw materials to the lab-grown facility, than the efficiency loss of raising cattle for protien
That’s the thing. It’s too late for them to get in on the real ground floor. The tech is already basically here with increasingly well established companies. Now the cheapest best optionfor the old meat companies to stay competitive is to try to block the new competition. Of course that method won’t hold up long term but we all know shareholders only care about next quarter.
Freedom.
Why won’t anyone let the market decide?!? 😭
It’s about control, they don’t want us deciding anything.
The SmAlL gOvErNmEnT GOP, playing favorites and legislating in favor of one of the unhealthiest, ecologically devastating industries on the planet… But their voters will keep voting for the corruption!
Regulatory capture in action
Republicans are not fit to govern.
The only place conservatives fit is in a box six feet under ground.
Lab grown meat is a dead meme imo but acting like Texan beef comes from grass fed cows in pastures and not from hellish factory farms where they get fed corn until their liver dies sure sounds stupid
I’m pretty sure this is a huge self own and in a decades time Texans who enjoy knowing what’s on their plate will be envious of their interstate bretheren enjoying tastier healthier cuts at a reduced price.
I’m pretty sure this is a huge self own
Congratulations, you understand every Texas legislative session since Ann Richards was governor.
Reduced price seems like a massive stretch.
The costs of production are decreasing dramatically.
The most recent development is switching to a plant based growth medium instead of fetal bovine serum (?) which will reduce costs by 80%.
So long as there are multiple producers they will compete on price.
The fact that you think it’ll be cheaper shows you havent been paying very much attention to capitalism.
Everytime a thing like this comes along, that promises a cheaper, better solution… It ends up being neither .
This isbpatently false, and disregards the fundamentals of economics. Well done.
Oh well, if you say it, it must be true… even if it flies in the face of established capitalist behavior and precedent.
Yes capitalists are profit maximisers.
However, many competing producers will minimise the cost to consumers.
This is true of any technology ever developed.
The goal is ALWAYS a more PROFITABLE product, with good marketability potential.
Quality, service, reliability, affordability, etc., are all secondary. It’s nice when they are positive, too, but they can all be compromised for more profit.
Yep.
All that matters is profit.
And they arent gonna leave profit hanging on the vine by pricing their producting below the product they are competing against, even if their hypothetical costs are 90% less.
If cutting profit per sale in half results in 2.5x more sales they will.
Right, which is why if there were more than one company producing lab-grown meat, they would in fact compete against each other.
Of course, anti-monopoly legislation is rarely enforced in the US, but sometimes it is.
Lab grown animal cells will always be more expensive than animal-grown animal cells. Animals have immune systems; lab cells have to be kept in a sterile environment, a significant cost. Animals have digestive systems and can power cell growth and all other functions from common plant materials; lab cells have to be fed pre-digested and carefully proportioned material, a significant cost. Animals have circulatory systems that efficiently perfuse oxygen and nutrients, and remove waste; lab cell containers have to be centrifuged in small containers because the forces required in large containers damage the cells. And so on.
The real potential for equal-tasting, cheaper, better-for-environment cuts is in plant-based imitations like what Impossible brand and its competitors are doing.
These laws banning lab grown cells are banning designer lab-grown cuts as a luxury good. Once that market matures, I am sure the wealthy people who jump on the conspicuous consumption bandwagon will not have any problem getting the law repealed or exceptions carved out for them.
Your entire comment assumes the state of the art for lab growing proteins is static and will not enjoy economies of scale.
I used to argue with a guy who thought that nuclear was the only power for the future, and things like solar and wind were too small and inefficient to bother with. I always said that he was arguing about a future where none of these solutions had any development or growth
Sure, back then solar and wind were tiny, but that doesn’t mean that you chuck it all out. You stick with it, do the research, and eventually it becomes a viable option, which is exactly what happened.
The same will happen with meat. Now it’s cost-prohibitive, but one by one, they’ll conquer the bottlenecks and inefficiencies, and eventually it will become a viable option.
That guy was right. And if we completely switched over and ignored the fear campaigns promoted by coal/oil/gas we’d have one of the safest and greenest electrical grids.
i would argue nuclear isn’t the only power for the future, but it’s a great backbone for a flexible green grid also with solar, wind and hydro.
Not really.
Yes the fear campaigns have been detrimental and it’s unfortunate that Nuclear has often been set aside over the decades because of the risk of mismanagement.
However, it’s only part of a reliable electrical grid, it’s not “the solution”.
In Australia for example, our population density is too low. Too much power would be lost in transmission. Perhaps in a few major cities it might be appropriate but it’s too costly to support a nuclear industry for only a few installations.
Nuclear might be a great solution in many instances but it’s probably not in Australia.
To be fair: People used to argue that Nuclear would get much cheaper and so cheap and safe that you could even power your car with it. They thought that everyone would have their own nuclear reactor at home giving them close to infinite cheap and clean energy.
That didn’t exactly turn out that way.
That’s the issue with using future developments as an argument. We don’t really know where the future leads the technology and which limitations will be overcome with development and which ones won’t.
There are thousands of cool things that were posed to become the future revolution. Some of them did, many more of them didn’t.
20 years ago, hydrogen fuel cell cars were to become the future. Now the technology is completely dead.
From a current tech standpoint economy of scale is not nearly enough to get the price of lab meat to the price of animal meat. The ingredients are just much more complex and thus expensive.
From a future tech standpoint, who knows? Could be that some revolutionary breakthrough happens. Or could be that it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t, it won’t get cheaper.
I am sure it will enjoy economies of scale. Lab grown meat is currently something like 1000x the cost of animal-grown meat: I am confident they can get that down to 10x, maybe single digits. I am equally confident the inherent inefficiency of growing muscle cells without the integrated functions of the rest of the animal mean the lab cost will never be lower.
1,000×? That’s ancient history. In 2013, yeah, the first cultured burger was $330,000 (Wikipedia). Now?
SuperMeat is running full 25,000 L tanks at $11.79/lb (Green Queen, AgFunderNews) — that’s premium chicken territory, not sci-fi pricing.
Believer Meats is modeling $6.20/lb with TFF tech (Green Queen) — organic chicken prices.
Average industry cost right now is $17–23/lb (Katie Couric Media) and even a conservative academic model puts big-scale production at $28.50/lb (ScienceDirect). Still single-digit multiples, not thousands.
So no — we’re not talking “someday maybe.” We’re already at 2–4× conventional chicken for the best setups, and the price curve is still falling. Will it ever be cheaper than farm-grown? Maybe, maybe not — inefficiency is real. But “never” is a bet against tech that’s already crushed costs by over 99.99% in a decade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosa_Meat
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/supermeat-cultivated-lab-grown-meat-cost-process
https://katiecouric.com/news/sustainability/what-is-lab-grown-meat-benefits-and-challenges
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666154322000916
You’ve really just enumerated some of the advantages traditional production has over synthetic meats.
Animals need arable land - something which will be in very short supply given climate change.
Animals are a significant source of greenhouse gas production.
Raising animals is in many cases unethical.
Synthetic meat production is not as dependent on regular climate cycles.
Animal husbandry is a mature technology with little opportunity for advancement.
I wish my stomach could handle impossible meats but they just immediately go through me. For me going towards a more plant based diet will require avoiding highly processed meat replacements.
That’s interesting, I hadn’t realized they affected some people that way. I have noticed their “beef” and “pork” products include a lot of fat, maybe the greasy slipperiness contributes to the effect? I’d like to think use in dishes where the other ingredients are low-fat would balance things out, but if not that’s sad for that brand.
In my case it’s the pea protein isolates. That burger spent so little time in my belly that I doubt I digested much of it.
edit: pea proteins are a known problem for my family
that explains a lot. there’s that restaurant down in santa nella that you either love or it gives you the runs and i never thought it was a heritable pea protein thing.
It’s specifically the ultra processed isolated proteins from peas. I can eat cooked peas or raw in pod peas without a problem but vegan pea based “ice cream” is in my belly for minutes at best. For ice cream replacements it has to be oat or coconut based.
thank you for sharing more info. i’ve not explored it too much myself.
That’s the small government party at work
Texans have a God-given right to know what’s on their plate
This sounds a lot like anti-vaxxing, where people want to “know” what’s in their vaccine. Like it’s a conspiracy.
I bet the lab folks could tell you what’s in their product much better than ranchers and meat processing factories ever could. A lot of science goes into it though and some people seem to be allergic to that, at least based on the sorts of claims they make.
Yes, that’s basically the idea, I guess.
Like with vaccines.
It doesn’t fit in a Tweet though.
A scientist telling you the name of every compound of some food doesnt make you actually know whats in it. Theres a big difference between knowing the name and knowing the thing and how it affects your body.
Well if it really mimics the real thing it will probably be a type 1 carcinogen too.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here. Are you suggesting that lab-grown meat wouldn’t be controlled by existing laws on what can be in food and will contain some chemical with unknown effects on the human body (outside of those in natural meat)? And that we know all about the effects of whatever contaminants or bio-accumulants may end up in natural meat? I don’t believe either of those. If we went further and listed everything that went into the animal and the culture that grew the meat, for which we would know more about the effect on the human body?
To reiterate, I bet the lab folks could tell you the effect of their product on your body much better than ranchers and meat processing factories (or anyone else) ever could of theirs.
My point is about how people trust new types of food. Knowing the name of the compounds in a food doesnt help in making someone trust it. People trust alimentary habits that are centuries old more than a newly developed method that they have no familiarity with. Im talking about trust on safety regulations rather than the actual regulations.
If only Texans could read (labels) they would know instantly. The end of the quote is the real focus: they want to protect the ranching industry by killing competition from plant based products.
Feels kinda unconstitutional to me. They could say you can’t sell it for consumption, but not sell it at all seems like an overstep.
As someone who is morally aware but also morally lazy and eats meat, this gives me hope that cultured meat is actually a threat to the meat industry at this point. Otherwise they’d not be making it illegal.
I 100% would replace all of my meat consumption with cultured meat as long as its reasonably umami/fatty/tastey/varied. Because I know how awful the meat industry is.
Plus it’d even be safer and healthier, especially given the destruction of food safety in this country. Little to zero communicable disease risk.
I unfortunately live in one of these prohibition states though. Just reinforces the idea that I need to get the fuck out of here, this place fucking sucks and the people here can suck shit.
To be fair, the republicans make lots of stupid shit illegal even when it’s not a threat at anything. They love virtue signaling through regulation and love creating laws that are based on conspiracy BS.
They made sharia law illegal in some places, even though there has never been the most remote chance it could come to the USA. They’re panicky fucking snowflakes. All conservatism is driven by fear.
Bathroom bills, chem trail laws. So many dumb examples of people trying to protect themselves from a boogeyman man that conservative media tells you to fear.
The shit they push is the closest anything in this country has to Sharia. That’s the irony of it all.
Well otherwise Medina ohio would absolutely have sharia law /s
Eh, I’m not nearly so optimistic. They also got terribly worked up over the word “milk” and labeling plant based burger “burger”.
It’s more about bending over backwards to protect the meat and dairy industry from facing any possible missed revenue opportunity than protecting their actual bottom line, and more importantly about demonstrating their continued utility to the industry.
Kinda like how they’ll work hard to prevent gun regulations that no one is actually proposing because the perception of the possibility of a threat is unacceptable.I’ll side with them on the milk thing. If I want milk in a product/recipe/dish, I very, very clearly do not want the water infused-flours that they are trying to call milk. I limit dairy as much as possible, but it absolutely does not get replaced in a recipe.
The Forme of Cury, a cookbook published in 1390, mentions almond milk. There’s no “trying”, we’ve been referring to non-dairy milk as milk (Middle English: mylke) for at least 650 years.
Shakespeare mentioned “the milk of human kindness”…
Wait, what were we talking about again?
It’s a freak out because they’ve been called milks for an exceptionally long time. “Milk” has never exclusively meant the product of lactation in English. It’s always referred to something white and more opaque than not.
http://www.godecookery.com/goderec/grec31.htm
As another reply mentioned, we specifically have recipes for almond milk from before modern English.
It’s hardly a new thing, just something gaining popularity.We have specific regulations to prevent consumers from buying the wrong thing within reason. Because most people assume milk means cow milk in the US, that’s what the standard of identity for milk refers to. We don’t need legislation specifically saying that plant milk can’t use the word because you already can’t pickup two jugs labeled “milk” and be unsure if they’re the same thing. Same as goat milk, sheep milk, milk of magnesia, 2% milk, whole milk, skim milk, vitamin D milk, lactose free milk, chocolate milk or strawberry milk.
Hell, “muscle milk” is only technically barely a milk product, absolutely isn’t milk (two milk derived proteins that using prevents a product from being labeled cheese and relegates it to “cheese product”), and would be stupendously unsuitable for cooking. No one complains about it, nor how it contains no muscle at all.I’d find concerns of consumer protection a lot more credible if they had insisted that other animal milks couldn’t be labeled as such, or at least objected to things like “coconut water”, “rose water”, “cactus water”, “birch water”, “maple water”, “water chestnuts” or “watermelon”. Consumers are evidently only confused by plant milk though, which also prevents them from reading the name of the product. Works fine for other animal milks though, and anything that isn’t milky.
Milky way, milk thistle, milk weed, milk tree, dandelion milk… The list goes on. Oh, and don’t forget cream of wheat or tartar, for when your milky substance is also thick.
but it absolutely does not get replaced in a recipe.
I’m sorry, but if you don’t alter the recipe to account for your chosen omission… your cooking must be absolute shite. 🥲
Milk has been used for crushed plant products with a milky consistency for millinia; longer than the English language, that’s for sure. You bought a stupid argument sold to you by the dairy industry. The word for milk from a cow is dairy, not specifically milk. Milk of magnesia, poppy milk, and all kinds of other things are called milk, and they’re not dairy substitutes, because that’s not what that word means.
You should always stop and think, and maybe do some research, before making up your mind, especially when it’s people who make money off of it trying to convince you of something.
I don’t think it is yet, but they want laws on the book protecting them before they have money to lobby against them. They don’t want a fair fight. They want to make sure they have the upper hand before the fight even starts.
Keep an eye on the Seattle election. If the progressive wins the race there will be a lot of gearing up for a huge influx of people. The people are expected either way but the progressive want to do something to house them and the conservatives want it all to be a surprise.
My family is interested in going international however.
Washington is where I will end up once financially stable again.
You might wanna check out those property & income tax stats, etc. first, though pretty much every state founded by those seeking to evade the long arm of the gov’t back in the day is uniquely renowned. Just gotta find the place that makes the most sense for you. ✊🏼
Absolutely. I’ve done research and already know some locations, been up there half a dozen times easy. I was supposed to already be out of my fucked up state and up there, but life got in the way.
Well then! 🤘🏼 Good on ya! Feel free to ask for pointers re: this Upper Left Coast 🤓
All the information I’ve been able to find is that lab-grown meat scaling to anything like the commercial meat industry is a pipe dream. At least in the current state, the industrial requirements make economies of scale impossible.
I think this is more Texas republicans giving their ranch-owning donors a meaningless gesture of fealty.
ETA: here is a link to an article with more information https://thecounter.org/lab-grown-cultivated-meat-cost-at-scale/
At least in the current state
I think that’s the key. The cost has been going down over time, it’ll get there eventually.
Its kind of like solar power. That seemed like a pipe dream for a long time as well but it just kept getting cheaper and cheaper.
This kinda feels inaccurate somehow.
Admittedly I don’t know much (anything?) about this and in the 5 minutes I’ve spent skimming articles online it’s been difficult to cut through marketing.
However, it seems like there’s people producing and commercially selling specialty synthetic meats right now.
It’s natural that initially, only specialty / expensive products will be commercially viable, and it seems like that’s where we are right now.
I will be very surprised if synthetic lab-grown pork mince is not cheaper than the real stuff in 10 years time.
The barrier here is that hundreds of millions of years of animal evolution has extremely optimized their form, and the nature of growing only the muscle cells de-optimizes the system. Animals have immune systems; lab cells have to be kept in a sterile environment, a significant cost. Animals have digestive systems and can power cell growth and all other functions from common plant materials; lab cells have to be fed pre-digested and carefully proportioned material, a significant cost. Animals have circulatory systems that efficiently perfuse oxygen and nutrients, and remove waste; lab cell containers have to be centrifuged in small containers because the forces required in large containers damage the cells. And so on.
Lab-grown cuts are sold as a luxury good now, and I expect as the price comes down from 1000x animal-grown meat to more like 10x animal-grown meat they will become more widely eaten by rich conspicuous consumers.
The real opportunity for equal-tasting, cheaper, better for the environment “meat” is development of and efficiencies gained by scaling the lines of plant-based imitations like what Impossible and it’s competitors are doing.
To your point, the value I see is if this process can be used to duplicate exotic meats, that could protect some species from over-harvesting and poaching. Of course, that supposes a circumstance where the environment that produces the natural specimen is not a fundamental requirement to make the meat desirable.
You’re talking about the cost to grow boutique lab grown meat that is the same as animal meat but grown in a vat. That cost 10,000 dollars a kilogram right now.
Go taste an impossible meat burger someplace and check the price and see its only slightly more expensive than animal meat, even now in the relatively early days. Beyond meat is a 4 billion dollar company. Its a viable business model.
The law is talking about lab-grown animal protein, not vegetable derived meat substitutes like Impossible or Beyond Meat.
fair point
Same.
I will never go Vegan but if Lab Grown Meat becomes an option I’ll do that.
If you leave then it will always remain shit, kind of the only thing keeping me in the states as a whole. Volunteer for parties who oppose Republicans, whoever has the best chance of winning. Go door to door. Talk with people like real people, change their minds.
I get the motivation to try and stay around and make things better but I’m well past that. I’ve been trying to change minds for a while, I can only assume I’m just bad at it.
I also don’t really owe this place my time and energy. If people in this state want to wallow in shit that’s their prerogative but I’m not getting pulled into that shit if I can avoid it. Though it looks like economically I wont be able to avoid it. Moving is expensive and if I move I’ll need a new job and the job market is terrible right now.
What’s so dumb is that there is more than enough money sloshing around in the industries associated with the SAD to probably buy into cultured meat and profit anyway…
“Texans have a God-given right to know what’s on their plate…
If this was about knowing you would have been passing labeling laws.
…and for millions of Texans, it better come from a pasture, not a lab.
You don’t need a law to stop people who already don’t want to do something. This isn’t for millions of Texans it’s for a few rich assholes who want to shut down competition.
It’s plain cowboy logic that we must safeguard our real, authentic meat industry from synthetic alternatives.”
If we’re talking about the kind of cowboys that get a corrupt government to back them up as they crush their rivals and bleed the people dry, then sure.
Texans have a God-given right
Theocracy confirmed.
We need to be funding this stuff.
Move all meat subsidies into lab-grown meat to save animals and still have meat. Easy.
Everybody trying to act like it’s bad is lying and likes animals getting hurt.
It’s just plain cowboy logic!
yay. let’s torture even more animals!
