• plyth@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 day ago

    Which democracies do you have in mind? For many it could be argued that they are American vassals. That doesn’t leave too much freedom for their populations who thus must be indoctrinated even more.

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      That claim is just moronic, maybe you are just using words you don’t really know what mean. Warsaw pact countries were Soviet vassals, where Russia intervened militarily if they didn’t behave or the people demanded democracy.
      There has been no American military intervention to make democratic allies behave.
      Any NATO country is free to leave, and all western countries have democratically elected governments, and better democracy than USA.
      IDK what kind of delusion you are under, but to claim free democracies are vassals of USA is delusional.
      Currently many allies are actually politically pulling away from USA now, because USA is unreliable.
      More than half of a century of Pax Americana is at an end, but allies that used to allow USA to be the leader is not the same as being a vassal, for instance several European countries did not agree with USA on Iraq, and did not participate in the invasion. Comparing voluntary cooperation by democratically elected governments with being a vassal is so ignorant I’m kind of at a loss for words.
      USA has exited many international organizations and agreements, while these are continued by former allied participants, and many former allies are working around USA now to achieve their political goals because USA does not share those goals anymore.

      It’s particularly funny you make this claim now, after it’s proven that USA trying to pressure allies into submission clearly isn’t working, and has the direct opposite effect.
      And finally in other countries there is nothing at all like the American propaganda about being free as by far the most important goal. On the contrary it’s much more about general quality of a society for all, which despite freedom not being the main goal, has resulted in greater freedom than USA has, because freedom is recognized as a human right that must be considered in how we regulate!

      • plyth@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        There has been no American military intervention to make democratic allies

        Because it was not necessary. Look at South America for what would have happened if people would end the dependency.

        It’s particularly funny you make this claim now, after it’s proven that USA trying to pressure allies into submission clearly isn’t working

        Tariffs, 4% military spending. What does not work?

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          24 hours ago

          Look at South America

          Bullshit, Venezuela is a major pain in the ass for USA, and on top of that has lots of oil, and yet USA hasn’t invaded them. Despite being ruled by an insane dictator with no public support, but under the guise of Socialism.

          Trump wanted 2% for NATO, but now most of Europe has decided to go to 3.5% - 5.0% because total independence from USA is the goal now.
          European politicians are even saying it out loud, there is no secret about it.
          Also USA is selling FEWER weapons to Europe, and American weapons stock values are declining while Europe is skyrocketing. The only thing keeping US weapons exports from plummeting totally, is that Europe is buying weapons from USA for Ukraine. While we are building our own production.

          You are delusional if you think anything you state shows that allied democracies are vassals of USA. As I stated before, we had lots of agreements on how to do things, because we were friends and allies, that does not make us vassals. Also there were clear benefits to both sides and smaller allies too under the old agreements. That’s not how it works with vassal states.
          Now USA is pulling away from these agreements, and there is cost from that on both sides.
          But still that doesn’t make anyone a practical vassal of USA.

          You show NOTHING factual to support your claim, because you have no idea what you are talking about.
          You are only parroting old communist and current Russian propaganda, that even former communist states don’t believe anymore.

          • plyth@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            24 hours ago

            There is more to South America than Venezuela, and Venezuela isn’t over. There was an attempt at the last election and there were war ships last week.

            Trump wanted 2% for NATO, but now most of Europe has decided to go to 3.5% - 5.0% because total independence from USA is the goal.

            USA got what they wanted and you feel good about it. What more to ask for?

            All because Trump is controlled by Putin. That’s propaganda. USA provides the supreme commander for Nato and nobody is questioning that command structure for the war against Russia.

            Most likely the EU will not push their social network law so US companies will keep deciding what Europeans read.

            • Buffalox@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              23 hours ago

              Some of those things are true, or at least partially true.
              But NOTHING you state shows allied democracies are vassals of USA, and Europe is already working on a defense that doesn’t depend on NATO.
              Regarding USA being the commander for NATO forces, what other command structure would you suggest?
              But apart from that USA is unlikely to be allowed that position for much longer. Trump wanted to destroy NATO and he basically has. But all other NATO countries than USA are still allies, and there are works in progress of EU/Canada and many eastern countries like Japan and Australia building a new alliance.
              USA has chosen to go it alone, but everyone else is working on continuing international cooperation to everyone’s benefit. On trade, on climate and on defense.
              Clear proof that USA never had vassal states, but actually free allies.

              • plyth@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                23 hours ago

                what other command structure would you suggest?

                An American commander doesn’t make sense if Trump works for Russia. I don’t believe that so everything can continue as is.

                • Buffalox@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  22 hours ago

                  Oh so you were just throwing garbage at the wall. It’s not like you have any alternative. 👎

                  • plyth@feddit.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    22 hours ago

                    No, you must have missed my argument. The EU countries have increased the spending as the US demanded. To convince the population the US threatens to cut off their protection.

                    That threat cannot be real or the military would implement a second command structure because it would be too late to negotiate with Türkiye, Canada and Great Britain about who should lead when Russia is attacking and the US doesn’t participate.

                    It would also be highly important to buy some equipment to fill dangerous strategic gaps but we buy the regular stuff.

                    So the US is still the backbone of our defence and we haven’t split. So if we are vassals we don’t have proof that we could split.