• Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    23 hours ago

    Some of those things are true, or at least partially true.
    But NOTHING you state shows allied democracies are vassals of USA, and Europe is already working on a defense that doesn’t depend on NATO.
    Regarding USA being the commander for NATO forces, what other command structure would you suggest?
    But apart from that USA is unlikely to be allowed that position for much longer. Trump wanted to destroy NATO and he basically has. But all other NATO countries than USA are still allies, and there are works in progress of EU/Canada and many eastern countries like Japan and Australia building a new alliance.
    USA has chosen to go it alone, but everyone else is working on continuing international cooperation to everyone’s benefit. On trade, on climate and on defense.
    Clear proof that USA never had vassal states, but actually free allies.

    • plyth@feddit.org
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      23 hours ago

      what other command structure would you suggest?

      An American commander doesn’t make sense if Trump works for Russia. I don’t believe that so everything can continue as is.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        22 hours ago

        Oh so you were just throwing garbage at the wall. It’s not like you have any alternative. 👎

        • plyth@feddit.org
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          22 hours ago

          No, you must have missed my argument. The EU countries have increased the spending as the US demanded. To convince the population the US threatens to cut off their protection.

          That threat cannot be real or the military would implement a second command structure because it would be too late to negotiate with Türkiye, Canada and Great Britain about who should lead when Russia is attacking and the US doesn’t participate.

          It would also be highly important to buy some equipment to fill dangerous strategic gaps but we buy the regular stuff.

          So the US is still the backbone of our defence and we haven’t split. So if we are vassals we don’t have proof that we could split.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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            22 hours ago

            Still as I mentioned, just because allies supported the PAX Americana doesn’t mean they are vassal states, and you have failed completely in supporting that claim.

            • plyth@feddit.org
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              21 hours ago

              My claim is that the population of the vassal states is even more indoctrinated.

              You say countries were free to join Iraq war. That war was illegal. Ignoring that then doesn’t make sense if it is not ignored now in Ukraine unless there was some pressure.

              • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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                18 hours ago

                Yes the countries with actual free press and better basic education are more indoctrinated than a country absolutely infested by propaganda and misinformation.
                There is no functional democracy that allow a cesspool of false propaganda like FOX news.
                Is there any point where you stop making absolutely nonsensical claims?

                • plyth@feddit.org
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                  17 hours ago

                  You believe in free press while it is as owned as the American press. If you think that Americans are not free, but you are, while you see the prison of the Americans, wouldn’t you be more indoctrinated if you don’t check your freedom twice?

                  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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                    16 hours ago

                    joyous imaginative freedom.

                    This was what I quoted from the article.
                    And yes Americans are indoctrinated to believe USA is the most free country in the world.
                    When every stat shows that most other democracies have more freedom in almost every way than Americans have, and are way better democracies.

                    I’m tired of your bullshit, we are in no prison of the Americans. Whatever the fuck gave you that idea? For instance France left NATO in 1966, USA never forced any allied democracy to change their government or oppress the opinion of the people, or tried to force any country into a military alliance with USA. Things that would all be common for Soviet union to do to Warsaw pact countries, that were actual vassals of the Soviet Union.
                    Yes Trump pressured other NATO countries to increase military budgets, but it was always an option to just leave. That is the opposite of being a vassal, so now you try to change the subject or the wording to something else, because you know your claim of allied democracies being vassals to USA is bullshit.

                    There are many things we can criticize USA for, but forcing allied democracies to be vassals of USA is not one of them.
                    On the contrary, USA is leaving the international cooperation that has worked so well for everybody since WW2. Which is really sad.
                    Europe and others will be more free, but despite that, losing USA as a friend and ally is a huge loss to the free world, which sadly doesn’t include USA anymore, or at least not at the moment under Trump and JD Vance, who have zero respect for the law, democracy and human rights.

                    PS: Opposite to allies being in a prison of the Americans, the Americans are by far the most imprisoned nation in the world. Not even dictatorships or other authoritarian countries beat USA on imprisonment of their own population.
                    This fact alone is a clear sign of USA not being a very free country, or a very good democracy.
                    So with Americans having less freedom than most, goes indisputably for the literal meaning of the word.