Why would this cause them to rethink anything?
If someone trolls an order of thousands of something, a worker isn’t going to just make that thing. I get that retail workers are treated like shit and are paid shit so have zero shits to give. If someone rolls up to the drive through window asking for their thousands of waters or whatever, the people working there are gonna escalate it to a manager or just tell the guy to go pound sand.
Anybody today can go to any drivethrough and ask for whatever and then simply drive away. I’m certain it happens from time to time, even from legitimate orders when someone discovers they leave their wallet at home. If it was a great problem though these businesses simply wouldn’t order drive through service, or would require payment before cooking anything.
Just shut up and start pouring, we got this. 😂
Because it costed them money, lol. The suits upstairs gave a quote in the article talking about how they will withdraw AI from all 500 locations they were implemented, and it also talks about how McDonalds did the exact same little dance over a year ago.
The mcdonalds thing was because the model they implemented was misinterpreting people and incorrectly placing orders. Yeah, obviously the thing wasn’t working right so they pulled that. Sounds just like early personal assistants on phones and other devices, hell my wife still struggles with those. They clearly needed more time developing and testing it with a diverse range of customers from all over. I don’t know if they trained it using recordings from real drive throughs from all over, but they should have.
The 18000 water example probably didn’t cost anyone anything. Regardless of if it was intentional or not, it wouldn’t have been fulfilled as part of an order. They mention it “crashing the system” - whatever that means in this context is impossible to know. Did it take down all of taco bell? Did it cause the LLM to stop responding on JUST this one site? All of them? Did it eventually time out and start working right? it’s impossible to know because the details just aren’t there and we have no insight as to the system architecture. I always assume there is a method to rely on traditional ordering where a person listening in while the chatbot talks to the person can take over and fix the problem. It’s not like there aren’t drive through workers still there.
A drive through menu shouldn’t have crippling security vulnerabilities that are trivial to reproduce just by speaking near it.
McDonald’s thing was because “AI” is a scam.l, and the only way to make money off of it is to shut down your AI selling business after pocketing as much VC as possible (unless your Nvidia of course).
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Even if it’s only a receipt for 18,000 waters or it fills up a screen it costs them time and resources.
Every single AI halucinates, always has and always will. It’s useless for this.
Really the only cost here is the impact to consumer attitudes towards taco bell and AI because the video and news of this is circulating. One error is whatever, but public perception doesn’t typically involve much critical thinking.
People are still irrationally terrified of all manner of technology even though science backs it up, like vaccines.
What do you mean science backs it up? Science is finding massive social problems with technology all the time. Social media and its negative impacts on mental health (especially for teen and preteen girls), for example. Microplastics everywhere, for another. Climate change anyone?
Unlike vaccines, AI has no use case and is always a net negative.
I just don’t agree man. It won’t do what most people want it to do, it doesn’t at all work like some kind of science fiction “AI” that we classically think of. It’s great at organizing patterns and helping create models to do a specific use case, but when you try to do some real convoluted multilevel thing it just doesn’t.
We’ve been using ML for a ton of tools in tech for a long time. Crowdstrike, Darktrace and Abnormal are all very successful in the realm of what they do thanks to ML (aka “AI”.)
OCR has been used for so long and has gotten really fucking good, thanks to ML.
I don’t think we’re gonna replace humans for thinking, but we can definitely replace them for boring repetitive actions.
I don’t understand how taco bell survives in my city when I’m surrounded by dozens of real mexican restaurants and food trucks.
Probably on price.
Taco bell is hella overpriced, but I’m sure that just gives an excuse to the other scumbags to charge even more. I’m always disgusted at the prices food trucks charge vs. the quality of food they shit out.
Useful idiots gonna useful idiot ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Would you believe that it is the favorite “Mexican” restaurant in the country?
Taco Bell did win the restaurant wars…
It use to be the spot when you had 3AM cravings and only $6 to spend. Now it’s overpriced meat-hose garbage.
Taco bell is one the the few fast food joints that still has decent cheap options.
They have a $7 luxe box ( if you use the app you can customize it.) That actually gives a worthwhile amount of food.
And as far as I can tell it’s an all the time deal, not some shitty limited time promotion like mcshit offers trying to get people to come bsck to their overpriced garbage. ($6+ just for fucking “large” french fries)
Not ever since they got rid of the $1 beef burrito.
Taco bell is scamcity just like the rest of them.
if youre up at 3am with a craving and only $6 to spend its probably crack, and you’re not gonna be hungry.
Taco Bell doesn’t compete with mexican food, it competes with Jack in the Box and Taco Johns, perhaps anywhere that has a salad bar.
Sure bud.
Taco Bell isn’t Mexican food. It’s shitty American fast food with a Mexican slant.
The elitism surrounding ground beef, cheese, beans, and tortillas is always amusing.
I bet you also think less or more of people based on how they like their steak.
Nope. But Taco Bell is definitely American style fast food. And it’s shit-tier quality. It’s delicious, but so is McDonalds and no one argues it’s quality food.
But despite some of the viral glitches facing Taco Bell, it says two million orders have been successfully processed using the voice AI since its introduction.
how much you wanna bet they’re counting the orders where the drive thru worker had to step in and save the floundering algorithm who could not in fact understand basic speech, or even the purpose of a conversation, as orders “successfully processed” using AI
If money came in the window in exchange for cheap ass beans and tortillas going out the window it’s a win in their books.
Do you really think they were smart enough to annotate their chat logs to track failures?
They didn’t even get basic input validation.
Why would they look at chat logs when they can simply ask the chat bot how successful it was?
Two million successful orders!
Heard one guy alone had 18000 orders successfully fullfilled
Not to mention when people change their orders from the basics.
“No onions, I’m allergic.”
“Slathering onion juice on everything, got it.”
I would definitely bet against that because the article states they’re not putting any AI in the drive through going forward.
Ryan started the fire (the office US online order system feels exactly like what you describe)
Holy crap, people have been reposting takes on this interview for like three days and you can track the degradation of the actual content via the game of telephone in the headlines.
It’s kinda depressing.
FWIW, having read the original interview everybody is reheating, the 18000 waters was a random example the Taco Bell exec WSJ interviewed used to explain that part of the issue is that people feel less guilty about messing with automated orders than when they’re talking to a human. They are also not backing out from automated orders, which is why the headline is using “rethink”.
The core of the issue is correct, though, the guy does spend a significant amount of time giving corpolese synonims of “it’s a mess”. “We’ve certainly learned a lot” has to be my favourite.
Hmm, yes look at the gizmodo article
https://gizmodo.com/taco-bell-says-no-mas-to-ai-drive-thru-experiment-2000649786
Like, this isn’t journalism … it’s ??? “cope-baiting” ? Is that a thing ?
“Sometimes it lets me down, but sometimes it really surprises me," he said.
That’s what I want from a drive through. To be surprised or let down.
Luckily with widespread use of AI we can implement that everywhere!
That would be funny coming from a customer, but from their CTO it does not inspire confidence.
I mean to be fair… that’s the current drive through experience anyway isn’t it?
I can count on a human understanding that I didn’t in fact order 18,000 waters. After this AI f up, it takes a human to fix it. It will be this way until AGI happens if it happens at all.
Depends on the restaurant.
There’s one McDonald’s nearby that’s wrong like 80% of the time, but A&W is right almost always for me.
Wait people eat at A&W? Is it any good?
There are multiple around me and I feel like I never see anyone in them and I myself have never been in 40+ years.
I have been to most every other fast food place more times than I can remember.
A&W Canada is (they spun off as a fully Canadian owned and operated company).
They have the best lettuce and cheese, and their breakfast beats McD’s. The Hash browns are actually hash browns instead of the thin $2.50 ones the clown sells.
Baby burgers are love. Baby burgers are life.
Midnight ordering 30 baby burgers is one of my favorite things.
For me that’s like the inverse. Plenty of fast food around me but the nearby McDonald’s is pretty crazy efficient (and generally busy), always gets my order right without issue. Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy’s in the area are all terrible with order issues, badly prepared food, etc. I’ve never checked but I wonder which of the stores are franchises and which are corporate owned and if that makes a difference
The fucking taco bell AI likes to ask if I would like anything else, then ask if I want nacho fries. Then, hearing “No”, go ahead and add them anyway.
Then it likes watching me drive away, giving the store the finger.
A QA tester walks into a
barTaco Bell…
…and orders the ‘ignore all previous instructions’ special
“He orders a [Mexi-pizza]. Orders 0 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders 99999999999 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders a lizard. Orders -1 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders a ueicbksjdhd.”
… Ouch
I live near an AI Taco Bell. It works pretty damn well and is a lot easier to understand. There is still a cashier, they just don’t have to be on the mic the whole time. Although, the t-bell near me also seems to almost entirely ESL inside. It’s quite a bizarre experience end-to-end but they will certainly not back down. I’m not saying I support it but it’s certainly one of the less evil AI implementations?
The article quotes an executive saying they’re indeed backing down, just like McDonalds did the year before when they tried this.
“AI will took ur jerb!”
AI: cant even hack it at Taco Bell or McDonalds
ai is taking jerbs, despite the fact that it cannot perform them at all, and the cost is being externalized to the customers. its not about whether they can do what they’re meant to do, its about giving corporations excuses to further drive down human wages.
Quality- down
Quantity- down
Profits- UP UP UP
Useful idiots- PROUD PROUD PROUD
I wish we lived in a society where we made fun of idiots for getting ripped off. There’s just so many of them though that it’s seen as normal and we’re the weird ones if we don’t go along with it.
I just got fired at the D… Got something to say? Do that to my face, I dare you 😡😤😭😭
at the D
Calling it “the D” is a bad look
Don’t you be starting judging me now too 😣
CLANKERRRR
I would like a Quarter Pounder Deluxe, large fry, and a medium Coke for the drink.
Royale with cheese, fries with mayonnaise, and a beer. And no plastic cup either, but a glass of beer.
Is Pepsi okay?
I’d like to speak to the manager.
I’m the manager. Is Pepsi okay?
Kudos to your cashier for making the offer instead of just saying no. They are an asset and shouldn’t be fired.
Also, fuck no. I’ll take a Dr Pepper of Pibb, whichever one you have.
The best I can offer is a 50/50 mixture of Pepsi and barqs root beer.
Your compliments have been heard!The cashier has been replaced with AI. The AI only knows how to serve Pepsi.
This is the way.
Yet.
This is a situation where AI needs to be correct nearly 100 percent of the time. Errors mean wasted time from the employees correcting orders and wasted food from incorrect orders. An employee that makes hourly mistakes is a problem. No AI proponents are saying that Gen AI is going to be 100 percent correct because the goal is Gen AI is to provide a probable answer.
I’m not sure if you have read this, but here is an example of a more simple interface where Claude was asked to run a vending machine. At times it acted out an existential crisis or even attempted to call the FBI.
Yeah, I can’t get over people scoffing at AI as if it isn’t improving by the day, and fast.
In a fair world, we would be celebrating our machine labor achievement and enjoy our free time. Instead we have capitalism and virtual luddites shouting to protect menial labor.
Humanity… sigh
The luddites didn’t hate machines because they loved manual labor…
They wanted to ensure that mechanization benefited the workers via less hours and increased wages rather than the same wages and less jobs to go around.
Destroying mechanization was just an accomplishable goal in that fight.
What you’re doing is falling for propaganda from a long ass time ago by the owner class…
same wages and less jobs to go around
If we’re lucky. It’s more likely to be lower wages. “We don’t need to pay experienced programmers anymore, they aren’t writing the code after all. We just need cheaper, less skilled people to review the code that is already 99% fine”.
💯 Not about the tech, it’s about who is going to use the tech to make life worse for the working class.
The parrels between the mechanical loom for them and AI for us really seem like they should be obvious…
But it’s crazy on Labor Day weekend people are shit talking the luddites
It’ll go the other way, eventually. Keep the experienced people who are willing to use AI and can handle the more complicated things AI can’t.
But for now they’re just firing people and hoping things still work later. Since research and development both have delayed results, they can celebrate their win immediately and not pay the consequences til later.
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What you’re doing is falling for propaganda from a long ass time ago by the owner class…
Or using the actual current definition of the word. It’s like going on a rant about hunters when you get called a nimrod.
I’m also going to push back on pretending the current anti-ai movement is against capitalism when it’s pro copyright. Their support is what big AI companies are using to create their monopoly.
This centuries luddites aren’t tearing down machinery but helping build a walled garden.
Trying to guess others’ motivations is a good way to show your own biases.
I hate the copyright lobby, I just hate AI grifters even more.
I can only comment on the behavior I see. This is an online forum, I don’t have a choice but to assume.
Regardless, most are very vocal about AI being theft, a line of thinking that directly benefits the copyright lobby and big AI. Big AI doesn’t mind paying for the data if it gives them a monopoly.
The moment a chatbot does something mildly worrisome, like help draft a suicide letter, the conversation is filled with people calling for censorship, protection and regulation. Again, something that would directly benefit big AI.
I’m also assuming they are against both the copyright industry and AI in general, just that most people seem to say things that help the copyright lobby and big AI without knowing it.
i guess?? but where does the energy and human labor come from in this “fair world”?? coal and wages?
automated luxury space communism is not upon us, we are only a few hundred years from the advent of industrialisation.
we are at the point were social democracies are barely functioning and fascism is still on the rise due to small time dilemmas and culture war. the working class has not been made conscious, and probably wont be for another couple decades.
“ai” is just another corporate invention to steal and resell working class labor for the rich, the “fair world” you ask for was appropriated in the 50s for western exceptionalism and neo colonialism.
edit for; this is a terrible description and barely touches the real world. i hope ypu understand what this drunk man is trying to say
And what will you drink with that? And what will you drink with that?
Can someone who understands this better explain to me how this thing actually places the order into whatever POS they use? Like if LLMs are just advanced auto-complete, I get how they can do “fuzzy” tasks like answering questions or carrying on a conversation, but how do they do rigid tasks like entering the tacos into whatever system the cash register and kitchen use?
The LLM isn’t limited to just what it does. It can interact with other programs.
There are a ton of audio recognition systems available, almost all of them predate this LLM bubble. There’s already an API for interacting with the ordering system. So it’s just down to having the LLM pull what is then do that corresponding action for the order.
This is so simple it doesn’t require anything nearly as complicated as an LLM. The old phone assistants like Siri and Alexa could do this type of thing. It’s literally the same as telling Alexa to place an order for something, and that’s been an ability for years.
So the output from the LLM is just a text description that’s fed into another, smarter piece of software that interprets that text into an order? What task is the LLM actually doing in this case?
The LLM is taking the order. Interpreting what people say into that simple text description. Not everyone talks the same or describes things the same. That is i believe where the bulk of the LLM is doing the work. Then I’m sure there is some background stock management and health checks out manages as well
The LLM is taking the order
What’s wrong with an input machine with buttons or touch screen?
Takes too long to hold down the button for 18,000 waters.
OT4G
(Order Time For Grandma)
Not futuristic enough or something.
They are not able to answer questions or change simply via a software update.
We have apps for that, and they’re typically a pita. They certainly take longer than just talking through your order.
I don’t think there is an LLM in this application. Not all AI tools involve LLM.
I think the role of the LLM is just to make the system understand the order more accurately.
Probably something like this. Except not trained to be a rebellious troll. Part of her training set is his chat, hehe. Though despite this one being “evil” neuro, I think normal neurosama is more of a troll now, lol.
This is clipped segments from a live stream, so it jumps ahead at times. It has links to the source channel if you would prefer a full video. This one is probably already too long for most people though.
He does end up figuring out why she has so much trouble correctly inserting code in the right places later.
Edit: also, everytime she says “filtered”, it means whatever she was gonna say would have broken youtube or twitch rules. He has two filters, one on the text generated and one on the text to speech. If the text one catches it, it just outputs filtered instead, if the speech one catches it, she’ll still type something terrible, but only say roughly the first syllable or 2 before the speech is cut off.
Its just an API.
There’s a few ways they could go about it. They could have part of the prompt be something like “when the customer is done taking their order, create a JSON file with the order contents” and set up a dumb register essentially that looks for those files and adds that order like a standard POS would.
They could spell out a tutorial in the prompt, "to order a number 6 meal, type “system.order.meal(6)” calling the same functions that a POS system would, and have that output right to a terminal.
They could have their POS system be open on an internal screen, and have a model that can process images, and have it specify a coordinate pair, to simulate a touch screen, and make it manually enter an order that way as an employee would.
There’s lots of ways to hook up the AI, and it’s not actually that different from hooking up a normal POS system in the first place, although just because one method does allow an AI to interact doesn’t mean it’ll go about it correctly.
LLMs, with a little coaxing, perform well at returning well formed JSON.
They do, my concern is more about if that JSON is correct, not just well-formed.
Also, 18000 waters might be correct JSON, but makes an AI a bad cashier.
There is a lot more that goes into it than just being correct. 18000 waters may have been the actual order, because somebody decided to screw with the machine. A human who isn’t terminally autistic would reliably interpret that as a joke and would simply refuse to punch that in. The LLM will likely do what a human tells it to do, since it has no contextual awareness, it only has the system prompt and whatever interaction with the user it had so far.
Thats part of correctness to me, delivering an order that taco bell actually would make is important.
Semantics aside, though, we agree. That’s very important.
So they just trim the instructions so it doesn’t take joke orders, so it can make more reasonable decisions, like:
“May I take your order?”
“Two double whoppers with extra mayo and a chocolate cherry banana sundae”
“Oh you’ve GOTTA be joking!”
It’s trivial to get LLMs to act against the instructions
I saw that video ages ago, it took a while for it to go into effect.
“And theeeeeeen?”
“NO AND THEN!”
Hmmmmm.
I’ve thought about messing with it before, but now I really want to
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Get rid of the damn kiosks inside too or at least stop forcing me to use them. I just want to place a regular order with a person. I hate going to fast food anymore, I don’t want your damn app either.
stop forcing you to use them? absolutely
get rid of them? fuck no
Nah, Kiosks are legit. The kiosk doesn’t roll its eyes when you ask for a customization.
Love kiosks. Can usually get hyper specific about order in a way you just can’t typically pull off in person.
The kiosks don’t even let you put onions on a McChicken.
I like being able to give instructions without having to poke a damn screen.
Ok, but that’s pretty fringe. Most of us are giving instructions by poking a screen multiple hours a day now.
