When has “burger” or “steak” ever exclusively meant meat from an animal? This sounds like political corruption to me. Somebody is getting paid for turning this linguistic gaslighting into law.
A “burger” has always been a mince patty of any kind and a “steak” is a thick slab of something. The default assumption may be meat, but it has never been exclusive.
Edit
OP appears to have a serious problem accepting facts. It’s disappointing given the number of upvotes Voyager shows for them. I suppose nobody is perfect.
I agree that burger has always been agnostic, but steak should really just be meat. Etymologically, it was always meat roasted on a stake. Similarly, bacon should just be a specific cut of pig meat, not turkey. Both of these are intentionally misleading marketing - with bacon it’s even so when they’re using different meats, let alone vegetables.
Intentionally misleading people through advertising, in order to get more sales, is wrong.
And don’t get me started on American “biscuits” that are not cooked twice. They’re savoury scones.
I mean… I kind of agree with you, but at the same time… Come on, the things have green packaging and “vegan” or “vegetarian” plastered all over the print. Not to mention they’re being sold in separate sections in stores, not where the meat is.
You need to really not be paying attention to get “tricked” by this.
Yeah but you shouldn’t have to be ever-vigilant against advertising. The government is supposed to regulate against businesses trying to trick people.
Like the OP picture, the box says “cooks like ground beef”, which is fine when you read it all, but the font colour is almost trying to hide “cooks like” such that at a glance you might only see “ground beef” and pick it by mistake. That’s very borderline, at least.
And while major supermarkets have vegetarian sections, smaller shops might not have such an obvious separation. You can’t justify the packaging by where the product might be shelved.
the font colour is almost trying to hide “cooks like” such that at a glance you might only see “ground beef” and pick it by mistake
Then regulate against that, not against calling them “burger patties”, or something. I mean, the choice of the image is especially weird considering “burger patties” never mention meat specifically.
And while major supermarkets have vegetarian sections, smaller shops might not have such an obvious separation
They do, because you’re not allowed to mix food products types in the EU. Meat MUST be separate from cheese, cheese MUST be separate from vegetables, etc.
Yes but are there regulations on meat being separated from meat substitutes? Would we even want that? I think it could be better to have all the burgers in one place, so long as I can clearly tell beef from pork from veggie. And should the laws on packaging rely on compliance with other laws? It’s the other way around - if the packaging is clear and appropriate, where things are placed doesn’t matter.
Cheese being separated from other things is more about hygeine. And even then, it isn’t 100% - you can buy meatballs with cheese in them. Maybe there’s some sterlisation requirement to make that okay? I don’t know.
I agree that burger should absolutely not be regulated as a meat only product. Just like how a pizza doesn’t have to have plain tomato sauce.
I did some digging to try and find a primary source, the actual vote is here (Ammendment 113, just search the page for “burger”). If you take burger and hamburger out of the list I’d have no issue.
Hopefully when the EC (ie the competent lawyers, rather than populist representatives) take their pass at this they’ll trim the list down.
Yes but are there regulations on meat being separated from meat substitutes?
Yes, because meat substitutes are not meat, therefore they cannot be stored with meat.
Would we even want that?
We already have it.
I think it could be better to have all the burgers in one place, so long as I can clearly tell beef from pork from veggie
You already can. The veggies ones have big “veggie” letters on them.
And should the laws on packaging rely on compliance with other laws? It’s the other way around - if the packaging is clear and appropriate, where things are placed doesn’t matter.
The sanitary implications of meat stored with non-meat products has much farther reaching consequences than a random person going “ah, oops, I accidentally bought veggie burgers”. Which, again, can only happen if they don’t bother looking at the package they’re grabbing.
And even then, it isn’t 100% - you can buy meatballs with cheese in them. Maybe there’s some sterlisation requirement to make that okay? I don’t know.
I’m not talking about ready-made meals or other meal types. I’m talking about “raw products”. Things like “meatballs with cheese” are not a raw product and you won’t find them in the meat fridge, they’ll be with the frozen meals section - with the pizzas, fries, deep-fry veggies, etc.
You already can. The veggies ones have big “veggie” letters on them.
No, not always. The OP photo is a good example of this, it doesn’t have any word starting with “veg” on the front. What clues there are are white text on a light colour background or vice versa, meanwhile the “meat words” are black text. The meat words are visually promoted, while the vegetarian stuff is drawn in such a way as to encourage you to miss it.
I’m not talking about ready-made meals or other meal types. I’m talking about “raw products”. Things like “meatballs with cheese” are not a raw product and you won’t find them in the meat fridge, they’ll be with the frozen meals section
That’s kind of what I was getting at, raw cheese is probably the main concern (because cheese itself is something that has to go off in a controlled way). Also, I do know supermarkets that sell raw meatballs with cheese in them in the fridge section. They’re really good, although best eaten soon after purchase…
I don’t think there is actually any regulation (yet) that would stop a shop from putting meat products next to meat substitute products. Eg, putting meat free burgers in a burger section. And I don’t think there should be.
If you do know of an actual regulation, rather than just assuming there is one, I’d like to see it.
The OP photo is a good example of this, it doesn’t have any word starting with “veg” on the front
Oh, yeah, someone will see the massive “made from plants” and go: “huh, never heard of that animal”.
The meat words are visually promoted, while the vegetarian stuff is drawn in such a way as to encourage you to miss it.
I have a horrible eyesight and still have zero problems seeing the white letters. I’m honestly confused as to why you people think this is some scheme to trick people into thinking that somehow the market illegally stored meat products in the non-meat section of the store.
That’s kind of what I was getting at, raw cheese is probably the main concern (because cheese itself is something that has to go off in a controlled way). Also, I do know supermarkets that sell raw meatballs with cheese in them in the fridge section. They’re really good, although best eaten soon after purchase…
Read what I wrote again…
I don’t think there is actually any regulation (yet) that would stop a shop from putting meat products next to meat substitute products
I don’t think there is actually any regulation (…) And I don’t think there should be.
Why? You don’t like having better sanitary conditions and instead would prefer for various diseases, viruses and bacteria having an easier time spreading?
After I posted this comment I looked up the etymology, the word “steak” literally comes from food being roasted on a stake. So, really, that should be the deciding factor - most steak we eat isn’t technically steak because it’s cooked in other ways.
Brazillian restaurants, the ones that come by with meat on a sword, should count as proper steak. Vegetables cooked in that manner could also be steak.
When has “burger” or “steak” ever exclusively meant meat from an animal? This sounds like political corruption to me. Somebody is getting paid for turning this linguistic gaslighting into law.
A “burger” has always been a mince patty of any kind and a “steak” is a thick slab of something. The default assumption may be meat, but it has never been exclusive.
Edit
OP appears to have a serious problem accepting facts. It’s disappointing given the number of upvotes Voyager shows for them. I suppose nobody is perfect.
I agree that burger has always been agnostic, but steak should really just be meat. Etymologically, it was always meat roasted on a stake. Similarly, bacon should just be a specific cut of pig meat, not turkey. Both of these are intentionally misleading marketing - with bacon it’s even so when they’re using different meats, let alone vegetables.
Intentionally misleading people through advertising, in order to get more sales, is wrong.
And don’t get me started on American “biscuits” that are not cooked twice. They’re savoury scones.
I mean… I kind of agree with you, but at the same time… Come on, the things have green packaging and “vegan” or “vegetarian” plastered all over the print. Not to mention they’re being sold in separate sections in stores, not where the meat is.
You need to really not be paying attention to get “tricked” by this.
Yeah but you shouldn’t have to be ever-vigilant against advertising. The government is supposed to regulate against businesses trying to trick people.
Like the OP picture, the box says “cooks like ground beef”, which is fine when you read it all, but the font colour is almost trying to hide “cooks like” such that at a glance you might only see “ground beef” and pick it by mistake. That’s very borderline, at least.
And while major supermarkets have vegetarian sections, smaller shops might not have such an obvious separation. You can’t justify the packaging by where the product might be shelved.
Then regulate against that, not against calling them “burger patties”, or something. I mean, the choice of the image is especially weird considering “burger patties” never mention meat specifically.
They do, because you’re not allowed to mix food products types in the EU. Meat MUST be separate from cheese, cheese MUST be separate from vegetables, etc.
Yes but are there regulations on meat being separated from meat substitutes? Would we even want that? I think it could be better to have all the burgers in one place, so long as I can clearly tell beef from pork from veggie. And should the laws on packaging rely on compliance with other laws? It’s the other way around - if the packaging is clear and appropriate, where things are placed doesn’t matter.
Cheese being separated from other things is more about hygeine. And even then, it isn’t 100% - you can buy meatballs with cheese in them. Maybe there’s some sterlisation requirement to make that okay? I don’t know.
I agree that burger should absolutely not be regulated as a meat only product. Just like how a pizza doesn’t have to have plain tomato sauce.
I did some digging to try and find a primary source, the actual vote is here (Ammendment 113, just search the page for “burger”). If you take burger and hamburger out of the list I’d have no issue.
Hopefully when the EC (ie the competent lawyers, rather than populist representatives) take their pass at this they’ll trim the list down.
Yes, because meat substitutes are not meat, therefore they cannot be stored with meat.
We already have it.
You already can. The veggies ones have big “veggie” letters on them.
The sanitary implications of meat stored with non-meat products has much farther reaching consequences than a random person going “ah, oops, I accidentally bought veggie burgers”. Which, again, can only happen if they don’t bother looking at the package they’re grabbing.
I’m not talking about ready-made meals or other meal types. I’m talking about “raw products”. Things like “meatballs with cheese” are not a raw product and you won’t find them in the meat fridge, they’ll be with the frozen meals section - with the pizzas, fries, deep-fry veggies, etc.
No, not always. The OP photo is a good example of this, it doesn’t have any word starting with “veg” on the front. What clues there are are white text on a light colour background or vice versa, meanwhile the “meat words” are black text. The meat words are visually promoted, while the vegetarian stuff is drawn in such a way as to encourage you to miss it.
That’s kind of what I was getting at, raw cheese is probably the main concern (because cheese itself is something that has to go off in a controlled way). Also, I do know supermarkets that sell raw meatballs with cheese in them in the fridge section. They’re really good, although best eaten soon after purchase…
I don’t think there is actually any regulation (yet) that would stop a shop from putting meat products next to meat substitute products. Eg, putting meat free burgers in a burger section. And I don’t think there should be.
If you do know of an actual regulation, rather than just assuming there is one, I’d like to see it.
Oh, yeah, someone will see the massive “made from plants” and go: “huh, never heard of that animal”.
I have a horrible eyesight and still have zero problems seeing the white letters. I’m honestly confused as to why you people think this is some scheme to trick people into thinking that somehow the market illegally stored meat products in the non-meat section of the store.
Read what I wrote again…
Regulation (EC) No 853/2004.
EDIT
Why? You don’t like having better sanitary conditions and instead would prefer for various diseases, viruses and bacteria having an easier time spreading?
What about steak mushrooms literally their name, cauliflower steak, or something with a wooden steak in it?
After I posted this comment I looked up the etymology, the word “steak” literally comes from food being roasted on a stake. So, really, that should be the deciding factor - most steak we eat isn’t technically steak because it’s cooked in other ways.
Brazillian restaurants, the ones that come by with meat on a sword, should count as proper steak. Vegetables cooked in that manner could also be steak.