Microsoft EVP Yusuf Mehdi said in a blog post last week that Windows powers over a billion active devices globally. This might sound like a healthy number, but according to ZDNET, the Microsoft annual report for 2022 said that more than 1.4 billion devices were running Windows 10 or 11. Given that these documents contain material information and have allegedly been pored over by the tech giant’s lawyers, we can safely assume that Windows’ user base has been quietly shrinking in the past three years, shedding around 400 million users.
I know everybody’s here to rag on Microsoft, but I honestly am quite pleased with Windows 11. I comfortably do software development in an Ubuntu shell using the Widows Subsystem for Linux and it honestly works like a charm. Then I can unplug and play video games in Steam and everything works great, there, too.
Of course this is all possible on Linux, but my point here is that Windows really isn’t as awful as everybody makes it out to be.
Meanwhile, MacOS enters into a second decade of no innovation. It still relies on Homebrew for developer tools, still lacks any substantial improvements to Xcode and only ever receives iterative cosmetic changes like video lock screens and the new bundle of desktop backgrounds for its latest “update.”
You’re trying to paint windows in a positive light when Microsoft is desperately trying to spy on us and force more advertising on us even though we really don’t want it, and the only reason they can do that is because they have a monopoly. So yeah, it really is that awful.
And if we want to do side by side comparisons of the available software packages, most things that you would need for your average office setup are free and come by default on your major Linux distros. On Windows, you have to install them manually, and the default options are mainly commercial. So you’re paying more and possibly getting something worse, depending on your personal preferences about each software package and its alternative. That’s pretty bad, my friend. Windows is competing with free and losing, but they have inertia and a monopoly.
My personal experience with Windows has been different.
I’ve not seen advertising in Windows; where have you seen that?* I’m a bit shocked about Microsoft spying on me, too. Do you have any sources on that? It feels like that should be illegal in Europe and would make headlines.I don’t use desktop office software and haven’t purchased any desktop software in probably a decade. My business makes heavy use of Google Workspace and uses online services that are agnostic to the operating system. The only things I’m really installing on my machine are developer tools through
apt-getand games through Steam.*) Edit: Windows periodically prompts to use Edge or subscribe to Office 365; I had forgotten about that because it’s perhaps less frequent here in Europe.
When you install windows from fresh, you have a bunch of “suggested” apps on your task bar which are ads. Spotify for example.
Then you also have Notifications that tell you the news, which are sponsored news. Then you have other notifications telling you to use this or that Microsoft service (eg. oneDrive), another form of ads.
If you have the know-how to install windows 11/without logging into a Microsoft account, the notifications pester you endlessly to log in to a Windows account, which uses an outlook email, of course.
If you use a browser that isn’t Edge, you’ll be routinely “reminded” how amazing edge is. Also, even if you uninstall Edge, it reinstalls itself after every update. Same happens with Copilot. Even if you don’t want to see those programs, because they are ever-present, you’re more likely to use them.
All of these are forms of ads and outright user abuse, and probably worthy of having Microsoft being fined again. Maybe you don’t care, but this is definitely happening.
I’m also in the EU, my laptop was bought in the EU.
You’re right that Edge routinely attempts to make its return—that’s annoying alright. Microsoft is skirting a fine line here since they were found guilty of antitrust practices for this very thing. (Tangentially, I wonder if iPhone users have the same complaints about Safari.) In Europe, at least, those updates prompt you whether to make the switch, and the user remains in control. It’s been many years since Microsoft changed my defaults.
You’re also absolutely right about the attempted upsells for Office 365 or OneDrive or whatever. I agree they’re ads and that they’re annoying, but not more so than how my MacBook constantly nags me about iCloud or how iPhone consumes it with app data, or how Google leverages its surfaces for Photos, Drive, Workspace and Gemini upsells.
In the end all these companies arrive at the same challenge: converting a one-time purchase into regular payments through subscription models. I had honestly forgotten about these prompts until you reminded me of them, and so long as they’re irregular and easy to ignore, I feel like Microsoft isn’t doing anything outright awful.
I often think communities like Lemmy choose to disproportionately hate on things. In this case it’s Windows, which I really don’t think is warranted.
But it is, though. You just choose to not see it that way. Laptops aren’t cheap, and you already paid the brand for it. Windows comes priced in into the purchase, you just don’t see it because you’re used to the price being combined. But its there.
For me, if I already paid for the product, that’s it. The company loses the right to advertise to me and milk me for further revenue, and just because its industry standard it doesn’t make it okay: the law should be tighter around this. Full stop.
I wonder if consumers would choose to pay more to opt out of this. Surely corporations have done their research, because none of them have chosen to offer a buy-out option. To be perfectly frank, I wouldn’t pay more for a laptop for a guarantee that I’m not prompted for any up-sells, and it’d only make the consumer offerings more confusing if such an option existed.
All these companies are forcing themselves into the corner of offering the one-time fee to be as low as possible, preferably free, and find other revue channels after the purchase. I hold them all equally guilty of this: why pay $100 for Windows when there’s no such fee for a Chromebook or MacBook? Microsoft is forced by competition to reduce the fee and recoup it elsewhere, and they’re in my opinion not even the worst among those examples.
It’s odd that Lemmy directs its anger at an individual company, while they’re all guilty of the same practices, instead of towards their government representatives who are actually able to take action against it.
Open up your start menu and start typing, what comes up? Is it just apps or in other words program within your local hardware? Are there suggestions from the Internet or in other words an advertisement.
The results are honestly pretty spot on, at least for my use cases, and this isn’t different from how Chromebooks or MacOS does it (although for the latter, Spotlight results are hilariously terrible). Even Linux distros often combine on-device and online search results—are those also advertisements? I’m puzzled why Windows is called out in particular on this.
If my Linux distro searched the internet, when I opened my launcher, I’d be finding a new Linux distro.
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I didn’t mean to have upset you as I wasn’t aware that European users weren’t allowed to comment here. I only ever meant to speak to my own experiences and not on behalf of anybody else.
That guy is a jackass. Probably an American upset that he’s a minority on Lemmy. Don’t mind him.
I reviewed the community rules and didn’t see anything about Europe, so I’m left confused about what I’ve done wrong.
Check the part about misinformation.
Kindly reference the sections where I’ve provided misinformation and I will add a correction.
I see my comment about advertising and will clarify it.
I don’t think the biggest concerns about Windows are about functionality. It works perfectly well and even has some neat features. I’m using Linux and I miss the sys + v for clipboard history. The biggest gripe themes I see are the loss of privacy coupled with increasing sales pressure for everything Microsoft.
Edit: I looked it up, of course there’s a Linux equivalent to clipboard history. Added!
sys + v can be bound to bring up clipboard history if you are using KDE!
Yes, I probably use this hundreds of times a day! This is a perfect example of something missing from Mac that requires an App Store purchase to fix—same for better window management. I suppose Apple prefers this situation because it allows them to both monetize on a lackluster OS and avoid making investments to fix anything.
I think you nailed it. There are definite upsides to macOS, especially for less tech savvy users, but they gouge the hell out of the denizens of their walled garden.