Hi.
In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.
While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.
And with that, let’s go:
In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.
Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.
There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.
If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
- Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
- Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
- The slogan “from the river…”
- Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
- … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.
If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).
To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).
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Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]
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In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.
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Press release from the previous government:
In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).
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In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)
federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)
More specified, not more equal in this case, really.
Why do they need to be specified? If it’s equal rights for all people, then that includes Jews. There is no need to specify if you are promoting equality for all.
Why is it useful to specifically name the rights of jewish poeple in germany and austria?
Not all Nazis left or died after 45. We simply do not act like they did.
e: typo
And a lot were born after 45.
Germany (as in the law but also many of the german people) is a bit weird about that, because, you know, it’s predescessor tried – sadly with very much success – to fucking murder every single European jew. That is a reason why in Germany, we are so specific.
This is also why Germany will stand by Israel, even if their right-wing regime is now murdering people in Gaza. It is fucked up, but the way it is at the moment.
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So while you can compare the suffering of the jewish diaspora and the Romani under the Nazi regime, there is no noteworthy Romani national movement as far as I know. So your comment adds nothing of worth to the debate, to be honest.
Thats the same argument as black life matters versus all life matters -> Just in Austria and Germany we have a special responsibility against Antis-Semitism
No, since with “black lives matter” (which I think could have used a better name anyway, like Black Lives Also Matter, which has the nice acronym of BLAM), it isn’t the oppressing group.
In the case with Israel and Palestine, Israel is very very much the oppressive group, currently conducting a genocide, a claim backed by multiple researchers and experts in the field.
Not really, BLM was started to highlight issues of racism, discrimination, inequality etc. faced by black people.
I would not have had an issue if the mod had said equal rights for all people, including Jewish people. It’s the fact that they say equal rights for all, but “in particular” one specific group that I take issue with, doesn’t matter if that group is Jews, Christians, white people, black people, etc.
The issue is that both Zionist lobby groups/political activists and authoritarian politicians and law enforcement (or well police, bc. often things later get thrown out in court) like to misinterpret it, if it is not said specifically. Do you remember how shortly after October 7 2023 Pierce Morgan and similiar did the whole “Do you condemn Hamas?” thing over and over again, no matter how displaced it was to the matter at hand? Well imagine that but with the police enforcing it and you get the state of public discourse in Germany for the past two years.
When it comes to speech about Palestine and Israel the executive in Germany will go on the basis of guilty until proven innocent. This leads to arbitrary and often violent arrests, searches of peoples homes, confiscations of devices… Even if all of that is later thrown out in court or the prosecutors don’t even bother to make a charge it has tremendous negative effects for the people targeted.
For instance in Berlin almost no demonstration for the rights of Palestinians go without police violence. Francesca Albanese the UN special rapporteur had multiple events in Germany cancelled or spaces denied last minute because of pressure from the government and reported that she was threatened with arrest. Finally take this example of the radically Zionist Axel-Springer Media specifically targeting activists in Berlin with Names and Pictures. Note how two out of the 6 people they attack are anti-zionist Jews.
There is no rational reasoning with German authorities or Zionist groups in Germany.
Yeah, German policing of the situation has been pretty insane
The meaning is the same. You are splitting hairs over a text written by a non-native speaker.
It’s not though, if you’re working in a restaurant/bar/shop and your boss tells you to give good service to everyone, especially (or in particular) Americans, then you’re being told that it’s more important that Americans get good service than other groups, even if you’re supposed to provide good service to everyone.
The fact they may be a non-native speaker might mean that they intended “including” rather than “particularly”, but it doesn’t change the actual meaning of the words that they wrote.
No, if your boss has to tell you that it is a reminder that you should treat everyone equal and despite knowing that you dislike Americans you still need to treat them the same.
This assumption that people are hiding secret antisemitic feelings is indeed a very German assumption.
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This is a specification so people know what the law in Germany is. Simple as that.