I feel like there isn’t an assertion that the police would act out from ignorance of the law, but just how they operate. If anything the enhanced legal awareness may embolden them to know how far they can push the line and get away with it.

More importantly, their enhanced legal training means that in say, 80% of cases, I’d expect an Officer to win in most legal fights vs a typical layperson (ex: typical protesters).

Yes we have some incredible abuses out there and it’s important to bring up Police Abuse to raise awareness. But there’s also the pragmatic truth that we cannot expect for protesters to truly match up well in a legal fight vs Officers.

There’s some dumbass advice out there about knowing your rights and asking the officers badge number and stuff. I think for most laypeople, this is bad advice because the typical protesters or layperson will mess up in the interaction. The proper recommendation when dealing with officers is to remain quiet and call your lawyer, and then have your lawyer always speak for you.

Policemen have more experience with the law than you.

It is a liberal fantasy to think that spouting a few words here and there could pin these guys in an ethical or legal dilemma. The officer has likely heard the argument before whatever you think you are pinning them on.

I’m not saying that means Officers are ethical people. But I’m trying to make sure everyone understands the threat here.

The protesters will fuck up first. We need to be ready for this. It only takes one protester to step out of line while the officers here are politically savvy and know what they can (and do) get away with.

The smart aren’t planning for how to escalate these protests. The smart are planning for the inevitable crackdown after a building is looted and the arson starts, and the police use that as an excuse to crack skulls with legal backing.

Our move after that, I dunno. But that’s happened in 2018, 2019, even 2012 with Occupy Wall Street. Building our coalition vs Trump will be harder but I get it, protesters need to strike back in anger after aggressions at this level. Just know we are getting actively outplayed by Trump as these predictable events happen.

You will be unfairly demonized. Republicans will get law and order propaganda on Fox News. Your Boomer grandparents will fall for the propaganda.

But where’s the silver lining here? What can we do to turn the tide in our favor despite this? I think we can start pointing out the overreach of the President here taking over States authority. We can use January 6th and Trump’s pardons against him. We need to start preparing these arguments moving forward.

The soldier vs officer discussion is important because I do think the soldiers are more ignorant of these matters, in a good way. Soldiers didn’t sign up to be riot squad or crack down on protesters. The National Guard do want to save the country from Wildfires and Floods (under normal circumstances).

Police easily will side with ICE. National Guard probably sides but there is a Hail Mary argument we can make to them (National Guard shouldn’t be riot squad) that could get them to flip.

I expect that if National Guard has a higher chance of fucking up and shooting a protester than a Police Officer. They know this however, but that’s the fear we can actually take as an argument point.

The idea that conservatives are unthinking dumbasses or ignorant people who can be convinced of a greater truth is a horrible, horrible liberal lie. Conservatives think deeply about these things and have already preplanned how they should act and react to various news. You liberals need to start thinking at least as deeply as they do on these subjects if you hope to win this coming political battle.

Doomerism on the correct contexts is correct.

We shouldn’t expect a military coup on this issue. The vast majority of soldiers will take the side of Police and ICE on this issue and proudly stand by them.

Doomerism here allows us to focus our efforts elsewhere, where it’d be more fruitful to strike back vs Trump.

I’m not saying it’s what we want them to receive.

But Police are constantly surrounded by lawyers, criminologists and judges. You ain’t convincing them of anything, they have higher trusted authorities on the issue of law and a single officer likely have stood inside of courtrooms longer than you and me and everyone else in this thread combined. (Unless we have a lawyer in the peanut gallery??)

So this idea that you can just call them ignorant of law (and consequently, capable of learning or changing their opinions on these issues give. Am online debate) is… grossly optimistic.

You have to see them as legal professionals. Not necessarily legal authorities (like a judge or lawyer). But as a legal professional, cops almost certainly know more about law then the typical person. Enough to be dangerous.

Trained enough to be stubborn.

We convince officers and other respected leaders to coup at the right time at the right signal.

But we also accept that the Grunts and dumbasses are gonna dumbass. Maybe you can get like an E-8 or E-9 on our side but don’t give much effort to E-3 or E-5.

But sitting around hoping that the military just magically appears on our side (that leans hard into Libertarianism at best and outright far right hooo rah at worst) is dumb.

You may laugh but it’s the reality.

Soldiers don’t have legal training, riot training, or any other legal maneuver. Meanwhile, Police and Police investigators need to actually win court cases if they want their charges to stick.

Police know what they can get away with given the local judges and politicians.

This liberal fantasy where your enemies can just be ‘taught’ habeus corpus and suddenly agree with you is just fucking fantasy. Maybe the dumbass soldiers might learn that but Police absolutely already have legal training and experience in legal matters. They won’t listen to your lectures on legality.

The benefit to soldiers is that they often know they don’t know legal matters and know their ignorance on riot training. But otherwise you have to treat typical soldiers as ignorant. Police on the other hand are pretending to be dumb, they have far more legal experience than typical citizens.

That doesn’t make Police correct mind you. It just makes them more legally experienced.

You can’t even consistently convince liberals that Kamala is better than this shit. And you think adding a bunch of conservatives will help?

Lulz. The bulk of the military is 18Y old chumps.

I have trust in the generals, but they keep getting fired by this administration. The enlisted mooks will brainlessly shoot at civilians and call themselves heroes if given the chance.

The grunts and mooks aren’t professional at all. That’s the fucking point.

Police are those who actually study the law. Soldiers at best know they haven’t studied the law. It’s always the generals and officers who step in and protect us from the dumbasses, but the brains of the military are actively being drained right now.

Resignations are only useful in the short term.

In the long term, Resignations provide new opportunities for the loyal to gain power and recruit.

Watch Elon Musk of 2012 vs 2025.

Long term drug use clearly destroyed his brain. He never was very smart but 2012 Musk is a fucking genius in comparison

Fascists are building the camps right now and you’re mad that people are shouting outside of the q&a portion of a town hall.

Yes. Because this proves you don’t got my back in 2026.

If you can’t prove you’re going to be useful to me in stopping Trump next time, then I don’t give a shit about anything else you say.

And sitting here talking about how Biden was a genocide supporter and Kamala deserved to lose is just that. Fucking propaganda designed to stop our best chance at ending Trump last election or this next election.

You fucking get on board for 2026. None of this bullshit about fucking AOC up in her next speech.

I’m here to support the people who are doing things. Not to pull Jill Stein bullshit or whatever you think you are doing.

Get your head out your ass. Fucking up the Democrats won’t help you vs Trump in 2 years or 4 years.

YOU are the ones not pushing back about anything

No. I’m pushing back against YOU. A danger to the 2026 election if you continue on this path.

I’ve explained plenty to my friends why Donald Trump and his policies are horrible. I don’t need to explain that to you, because you’ve gone far over to the point where your words are now counterproductive and helping Mr. Trump again.

What I need to tell you, in particular, is that you’re counterproductive and worse than useless. You’re like this protester in AOC’s town hall. You can’t even see the fucking context of the situation in this fucking thread. Take a step back, calculate the politics a bit better, and see what’s best for you and everyone. Including those in Gaza. The #1 goal is the defeat of Donald Trump.

And you continue to prove my point. This is a topic about “Free Palestine” protesters going too far and attacking of all people, AOC on this issue.

Glad to know I can’t count on you, or anyone from your political ideology, to help us defeat Trump.

I just want to make sure everyone else is aware of this. Thanks.

We’ve confirmed that Trump is part of the Warmongers with this move. But instead of pushing back vs the genocidal maniacs, you fuck up our overarching political moves and political strategy.

It’s fine. My point here is to show who is, and who isn’t, part of the reliable bloc of anti-Trump moving forward. It’s better to know today that the Free Palestine idiots will die on this hill rather than work with us on the issue. Nothing is enough for you, and you’ll continue to espouse anti-Democrat talking points even in our moment of need and unity.

There was a ceasefire deal pushed by Biden which was active when Trump was inaugurated.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/4032622/biden-announces-ceasefire-deal-between-hamas-israel-in-farewell-address/

Period.

Stop fucking lying to yourself. We know who broke the deal and who pushed for it to be broken.

Biden forced peace upon Israel, strong arming them into a ceasefire.

Trump reopened the war and now has more bombs over the region. And yet it’s somehow Kamala’s fault for the situation.

How fucking stupid is the Free Palestine group? Answer: not stupid at all. Y’all are fucking malicious at this point and it’s time we consistently pointed out the hypocrisy.

Kamala supported genocide tho. /s

Ah yeah the standard low effort copypasta canned arguments.

Go learn to write more than a copy/paste and try to understand topics moving forward yo. Pretending to be an uncaring sociopath online is like Twitter / X shit. This is Lemmy, I presume you are here because you actually give a shit about these discussions.

Lulz. If you can’t spar with me, you will get eaten up by the actual far right / mainstream Americans out there.

Be happy I’m willing to come over here and push back against your bubble. You guys obviously need it if you’re upvoting shitty misinformation memes like this.

The best part of this entire discussion? Elon Musk is part of the $1/year salary club. Your entire fucking meme doesn’t even apply to the most corrupt of CEOs.

Your argument sucks and you should make a new one. Sorry I’m the bearer of bad news but that’s better than y’all idiots going out to the real world and having a far right goon own you in a debate.

The board of directors removes the obvious corruption argument.

And shareholders select the board of directors anyway, so if shareholders agree to new terms of values then CEOs can and will be fired.

I’m looking at Intel for example and how they mistreated Pat Gelsinger and fired him despite being a technical leader. And the new incoming CEO is Lip-Bu Tan, who is a non-technical finance bro who is worse. Why did the shareholders (and board of directors) prefer Lip-Bu Tan?

There is a large scale hero worship bro culture that’s at the root of all the problems here, a culture that millions of shareholders have which is then passed to the Board of Directors and finally the C-suite that the Board hires.

But no. Let make shitty memes that misunderstand the power dynamics and perpetuates misinformation. That will help your argument lol.

EDIT and that doesn’t even get to say, all the CEOs who take a $1/year paycheck just to prove you wrong. The problem here is hero worship cult culture. The pay and salaries are a distraction and easily avoided with various simple political / Public Relations moves.

Because today’s hero worship culture makes the mass of shareholders believe that these CEOs have skills that cannot be replicated by cheaper labor.

But that’s not quite as simple a problem. The issue is that you are up against literally millions of shareholders who have different values than you.

Go talk to a Tesla shareholder. They pretty much think Elon is a god. So no amount of salary is too much as long as they get Elon leading those companies.