I’m gonna need some names because I only recognize like, two.
Going from lawful to chaotic, good to evil, we have:
- Gecko (Firefox, Seamonkey, and derivatives)
- Servo
- Libweb (Ladybird)
- Links2 (as well as ELinks and other forks)
- WebKit (used in a lot of stuff, namely Safari and GNOME Web)
- Goanna (Pale Moon and Basilisk)
- QtWebEngine (Konqueror, Falkon, and qutebrowser)
- Blink (Chromium, Brave, and derivatives)
- Trident (Internet Explorer, old versions of Maxthon, old versions of Avant, and any homemade browser created with Visual Studio).
(until they get a new lead dev, Ladybird is definitely not any type of “Good”)
100%, this is either uninformed or some apologia
What’s going on? I’ve seen this new browser engine referenced recently a decent bit but I have no info beyond ‘it’s new and exists’.
the lead dev is a freeze peach absolutist. he’s said some ignorant shit about trans people and when people said “hey, let’s adjust this language” he was like “let’s not get political”
Is this really the hill you want to die on and rather have a Chromium monopoly?
the ladybird dev wants to work with people who want me dead. so. yeah, fuck him. mozilla ain’t great, but they’re the least dangerous engine builders right now. servo would be a better engine for us to rally around, but everyone would rather talk about the less mature, more fascist accepting, project.
nazis are bad. that’s the hill i’m willing to die on. this is bigger than a browser engine.
Ladybird is certainly interesting to watch, it’s improving quite quickly.
I know people on here hate it because of one (admittedly not at all nice) gender issue in the codes comments but like… seriously?
Any details on that comment? Curious…
I’ll give my take on it. Something many fail to grasp is that it’s not about a singular thing, you need to look at the context. Let’s go through some of it:
- Andreas Kling, lead developer of (now-)Ladybird, rejects PR that changes “he” to “they” in documentation.
- This is the most frequently mentioned example of Andreas’ issues.
- The “he” in question referred to any user, where “they” is already commonly used instead by everything from companies, to news, to the Linux Kernel docs (an arguably much more important software project).
- Andreas’ exact words: “This project is not an appropriate arena to advertise your personal politics.”
- This code was eventually merged 3 years laters in a different PR, this time described as “Grammar fixes” (it changes even more pronouns to gender neutral than the original did).
- This PR was merged two hours after its creation and coincidentally around a month after Andreas announced his stepping down from the project.
- An unrelated post by the contributor, same day.
- Someone got his attention and tried to explain to him why that’s not cool; he doubled down, assuming the worst from the original contributor.
- Andreas Kling likes interacting with far-right, queerphobic, or otherwise controversial persons.
- Here’s him calling Brendan Eich, known homophobe, kicked out of Mozilla for… being a homophobe, now CEO of the foremost crypto browser, infamous for its bravery and attracting like-minded fans, “Senpai.”
- A far more impressive man than Andreas will ever be.
- Brendan’s great …Also shouldn’t have decried him in the past for being a homophobe (he did to fit in).
- Memeing about Brendan Eich’s secret to success.
- Here’s him welcoming Vaxry, infamous for the toxic community of his hyprland project to the point of being kicked out of the freedesktop.org project. He’s also on record saying “I do believe there could be arguments to sway my opinion towards genocide”. There is a print of this, somewhere. I will find it and put it here.
- Here’s him doing a talk with Bryan Lunduke, tech’s premier transphobe anti-DEI, anti-Woke conspiracy theorist with a classic far-right victim-complex.
- Trudging through Bryan’s slop wears on the mind, but here’s another example of him being ridiculous. Highlight of the article: “There are multiple Software and Computer organizations which have declared their support for the Trans fetish over the last few years…”
- Read anything by Bryan, then look into what he’s talking about. There are at least as many examples, as there are times Bryan has touched upon LGBT topics or linux in recent years.
- Here’s relatively prominent KDE developer Niccolò’s hour long video detailing how Bryan is a horrible, lying “journalist,” and how people need to stop giving him a stage.
- Trudging through Bryan’s slop wears on the mind, but here’s another example of him being ridiculous. Highlight of the article: “There are multiple Software and Computer organizations which have declared their support for the Trans fetish over the last few years…”
- He also often interacts with other various degrees of right-leaning users on twitter, a platform he describes as full of positive energy, unlike Mastodon, which he’s not a fan of.
- Worth noting: Firefox, Vivaldi, Zen and even Brave (to their credit) are all active on Bluesky, the most popular twitter alternative that isn’t Threads. Vivaldi hosts their own mastodon instance. Mozilla used to as well, but it didn’t take off. Nonetheless, their twitter activity dropped heavily on their 2.4M followers account. Zen (a young firefox fork driven mostly by a student’s free time and donations) is also active on mastodon.
- Even Servo, the browser engine, is active on Bluesky and Mastodon.
- Ladybird, predictably, has an X account and a discord server.
- For fun, I would like to share with you, dear reader, my favorite comic about the state of twitter.
- Here’s him calling Brendan Eich, known homophobe, kicked out of Mozilla for… being a homophobe, now CEO of the foremost crypto browser, infamous for its bravery and attracting like-minded fans, “Senpai.”
- Other quirky things about Andreas that could be irrelevant in isolation but… please, put the pieces together. I’m begging you, look at the full picture. Is there truly nothing off about all of this?
- Thinks the left doesn’t contribute to Open Source, and the right does all the work.
- Hey, remember that time Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux, called himself a “woke communist” on a public rant on the fediverse? He must be having an identity crisis now, huh.
- Self-described centrist and apolitical.
- I can elaborate on why this isn’t good, but I think most people get it.
- Wary of people publicizing likes.
- Someone once implied that if people didn’t like Andreas’ views now, they would’ve abhorred his Liked list before Elon made those private. It’s a random person’s word, so don’t take it as fact, but I need to share this because I’ve seen similar situations before, and it fits the pattern.
- Thinks the left doesn’t contribute to Open Source, and the right does all the work.
Would I look at that PR and say I’m not touching Andreas with a ten-foot pole? Maybe that’s excessive. Would I ignore all the rest and say he’s just misunderstood? Hell no. For all its issues, I do hope Ladybird succeeds as a new browser engine because the internet needs more of those. But I cannot support it until Andreas gets his shit sorted.
P.P.S. I’m tired, of all this.
- Andreas Kling, lead developer of (now-)Ladybird, rejects PR that changes “he” to “they” in documentation.
chaotic good? ladybird? the browser by devs that refuse to use your pronouns?
People are losing their shit, calling for boycotts, and throwing around accusations of transphobia over comments in the source code and a single line of documentation? Seriously? And brigading the developer three years after the fact‽ I was ready to write off Ladybird, but damn, this was taken way out of proportion.
I’m all in for equal treatment, but people need to get a perspective. Such an extreme reaction will ultimately hurt the cause they’re trying to advocate for. Getting bent out of shape and publicly brigading something for every perceived slight, every time someone’s feelings are hurt, or can’t get their way, will get them – and the demographic or movement they represent – labelled as undesirable.
A single line of documentation? How about looking into some context? Hurt feelings my ass, Andreas isn’t some innocent, silly little guy who never does anything questionable.
And which cause exactly are you talking about? Because I don’t know about you, but I’ll stand for real, marginalized people over lines of code on a screen any day.
Thanks for sharing that linked comment. I knew there were other things that weren’t as talked about, but I didn’t have the energy to look into them and draft a comprehensive insight with citations.
Whenever I post such things, I get a small wave of displeased people. Rarely get thanks, though. Even if it takes a bit of effort, and I inevitably find yet more stuff. That’s ok, praise obviously isn’t the point.
But it demoralized me a little, how there’s always downplaying. It’s never enough. I can say Brendan Eich is homophobic, ideally you shouldn’t support him, and someone will tell me he invented javascript, and that makes it ok (my entire point is thus null, I am overreacting).
Your thanks encourage me to uselessly annoy and present no arguments a bit longer. Thank you.