The things listed as advantages are what, 10 times in your entire life? I had no valid photo ID for over a decade. It was a hassle… maybe twice. For many things, who I am shouldn’t even matter - or at least my face shouldn’t. Of course, now you’re not allowed to vote any more unless you bring an approved ID… so there is that.
On the other hand, what are some potential negative points of the enforced IDs?
When you get mugged, they can also steal your name, address and identity, then quickly gain access to your bank account and everything else in your life.
Attending a peace or environmental protest? Too bad, your ID has been disabled remotely by the police. Now you can’t buy anything or board public transport.
Have you said something online that the government doesn’t like? Because your ID is linked to every website now, they know you said it. You’re about to have your bank account disabled.
Didn’t notice that tiny bit of plastic on the ID scanner? Too bad - now your ID has been cloned. Now they’re taking out loans in your name. Now the loan sharks are after you.
Oh! Looks like someone’s got into the badly secured ID database again. There’s all your details being sold on to criminals. Again. Third time this month.
The Internet’s down and the ID scanners aren’t working. Sorry, nobody can buy anything or go anywhere.
Your abusive partner has confiscated your ID. You’ll get arrested if you go out without your ID.
Your terrifyingly dangerous ex is stalking you. Thanks to a poorly secured database, and scanning IDs in every shop, bus and train, they now know exactly where you are. They are coming for you.
The ID now has to use a particular piece of software attached to your mobile phone at all times. It’s only compatible with the newest of phones. Your phone is older, and you can’t afford to replace it for a few years. You are a criminal now.
I know some of these are slightly exaggerated overreaction, but I’m sure you get the point - however unlikely these exact situations are, there are similar ones which are very likely, in a few years. Maybe not the current government, but what do you think the Tories or UKIP would do with that power? These are just going to be used to oppress and destroy the lives of the poor, frightened and vulnerable.
Nobody asked for this. It wasn’t in the election promises, it wasn’t in the manifesto. Nobody voted for this. Nobody asked for this and nobody wants it. There’s no mandate for it.
Thank you for spelling out exactly how I also feel about keir stasi’s digital ID plans.
Similar shit is happening in the EU - travellers entering from outside the EU will be obliged to supply biometrics and fingerprints - to be permanently stored…for convenience for future entries or some such bs!
Your reply imagines a future in which id is simultaneously used for more things than in any country, and less secure than existing technology (it’s not possible for example to clone digital id in current implementations, just like you can’t clone a bank card off a contactless transaction)
So I don’t think this is a case of me being optimistic.
And if you’re pessimistic about all of this then that’s not unreasonable, but framing it as absolute opposition is unreasonable. The objections you raised are for the most part entirely surmountable by a sensible implementation. Why not change your opposition to “we shouldn’t have this until a concrete proposal is put forward which satisfied x y and z?”
Yes, I know what you mean, but this is not happening in isolation. This is happening in context with a bunch of other stuff - some of it is badly thought out Tory policies which are being enacted by the current government, and some of it is newly invented policies from the current government.
So if we think about it combined with their current crackdown on peace and environmental protest (potentially on its way to being outlawed entirely), enforced ID to access websites and (imminently) requirement to give the government access to your bank account to receive any benefits (including, of course, child benefit and disability benefits)… and suggestions about replacing all train tickets with GPS tracking your ID and location… these could all add up very quickly into a scenario as described. If they can explain how these definitely won’t happen, maybe we’re fine?
Also, agreed on the ‘sensible implementation/concrete proposals’ bit, but that’s exactly what they’re not doing, and there’s no suggestion that that’s been done in the past with anything recently, and no suggestion it will be done for this.
Are they consulting the EFF and similar? Are they consulting University Professors who are experts in their fields? Or are they consulting right-wing American surveillance companies?
There’s no sensible assessment of how this would work, with thought, research, expert opinions etc - like the “ID for websites” thing - it was just pushed through by people who didn’t understand how it would work.
I think this diagram explains it a bit clearer:
Basically, the most likely outcome is sadly that it will be shoddily implemented by morons and criminals, to make some right-wing twats more rich and powerful.
What has told you in the past… 20 years? That this government, or the previous government, is capable of doing anything that isnt just 100% to fuck us all over?
The other guy is right, no one asked for this. We did ask to drop the “child” safety act, and were ignored or worse, called paedos.
Here, Ill play your game. “We shouldnt have this until we have a government that works for the people, and not to service and fill the pockets of the already rich and abusive. And even then, it should be an option. Not a demand.”
This is a continuation of the push, along with accessing our private messages, to control and monitor us all 24/7. Starmer is a right wing authoritarian masquerading as a left wing leader. And the end of the road he leads us down, will be one were we have no privacy. We wont even be allowed to protest this shit.
I admire your optimism.
The things listed as advantages are what, 10 times in your entire life? I had no valid photo ID for over a decade. It was a hassle… maybe twice. For many things, who I am shouldn’t even matter - or at least my face shouldn’t. Of course, now you’re not allowed to vote any more unless you bring an approved ID… so there is that.
On the other hand, what are some potential negative points of the enforced IDs?
I know some of these are slightly exaggerated overreaction, but I’m sure you get the point - however unlikely these exact situations are, there are similar ones which are very likely, in a few years. Maybe not the current government, but what do you think the Tories or UKIP would do with that power? These are just going to be used to oppress and destroy the lives of the poor, frightened and vulnerable.
Nobody asked for this. It wasn’t in the election promises, it wasn’t in the manifesto. Nobody voted for this. Nobody asked for this and nobody wants it. There’s no mandate for it.
Thank you for spelling out exactly how I also feel about keir stasi’s digital ID plans.
Similar shit is happening in the EU - travellers entering from outside the EU will be obliged to supply biometrics and fingerprints - to be permanently stored…for convenience for future entries or some such bs!
Your reply imagines a future in which id is simultaneously used for more things than in any country, and less secure than existing technology (it’s not possible for example to clone digital id in current implementations, just like you can’t clone a bank card off a contactless transaction)
So I don’t think this is a case of me being optimistic.
And if you’re pessimistic about all of this then that’s not unreasonable, but framing it as absolute opposition is unreasonable. The objections you raised are for the most part entirely surmountable by a sensible implementation. Why not change your opposition to “we shouldn’t have this until a concrete proposal is put forward which satisfied x y and z?”
Yes, I know what you mean, but this is not happening in isolation. This is happening in context with a bunch of other stuff - some of it is badly thought out Tory policies which are being enacted by the current government, and some of it is newly invented policies from the current government.
So if we think about it combined with their current crackdown on peace and environmental protest (potentially on its way to being outlawed entirely), enforced ID to access websites and (imminently) requirement to give the government access to your bank account to receive any benefits (including, of course, child benefit and disability benefits)… and suggestions about replacing all train tickets with GPS tracking your ID and location… these could all add up very quickly into a scenario as described. If they can explain how these definitely won’t happen, maybe we’re fine?
Also, agreed on the ‘sensible implementation/concrete proposals’ bit, but that’s exactly what they’re not doing, and there’s no suggestion that that’s been done in the past with anything recently, and no suggestion it will be done for this.
Are they consulting the EFF and similar? Are they consulting University Professors who are experts in their fields? Or are they consulting right-wing American surveillance companies?
There’s no sensible assessment of how this would work, with thought, research, expert opinions etc - like the “ID for websites” thing - it was just pushed through by people who didn’t understand how it would work.
I think this diagram explains it a bit clearer:
Basically, the most likely outcome is sadly that it will be shoddily implemented by morons and criminals, to make some right-wing twats more rich and powerful.
Truthfully, I hope I am over-reacting.
What has told you in the past… 20 years? That this government, or the previous government, is capable of doing anything that isnt just 100% to fuck us all over?
The other guy is right, no one asked for this. We did ask to drop the “child” safety act, and were ignored or worse, called paedos.
Here, Ill play your game. “We shouldnt have this until we have a government that works for the people, and not to service and fill the pockets of the already rich and abusive. And even then, it should be an option. Not a demand.”
This is a continuation of the push, along with accessing our private messages, to control and monitor us all 24/7. Starmer is a right wing authoritarian masquerading as a left wing leader. And the end of the road he leads us down, will be one were we have no privacy. We wont even be allowed to protest this shit.