Fair point. My rebuttal: The system here is manifold, a lack of general awareness and understanding, the legislative framework in most places, and most importantly, capitalism. The owners of social media are the most replaceable part of that, if Meta and Zuck imploded today, some other for-profit crap would fill the void
Yeah, but psychological factors decide whether people obey and conform, as demonstrated by Milgram and Asch. Changing the situation changes whether they’ll go along with a bad system.
Our brains are hard-wired to be susceptible to specific patterns. Ancestral humans who stayed in good graces with their social group, even when the leaders of that group were factually mistaken, survived at higher rates than humans whose respect for facts drove them to reject or be rejected by the group. The details of which and to what degree we have these triggers override our rationality varies by genetics and environment, but we are all susceptible.
That a very significant percent of humans respond to their system by adopting specific harmful behavior is not something we can fight by moral condemnation. Labeling them as bad people is unproductive. If the goal is to actually reduce the harmful behavior, addressing the system - not the individuals - is the only effective strategy.
Everyone has a price, and everyone can be led down the wrong path. I mean, the supposed “good guys” in all of this were laughing and cheering at a man being murdered in front of his wife and kids just last week. I wonder how many of them, even just 5 years ago, would have done that? But they see the assholes on the “bad side do it” and all of sudden its ok.
Social media has fucked all of our brains. whether its tiktok, facebook reddit, instagram, lemmy, whatever. Its made us weird about information, and the opinions that we have. The downvotes give us little dopamine hits. So we start to want the uparrows. Then we get weird about the uparrows, moaning that people are misunderstanding what we are saying. Then we cant risk the uparrows, so we just say whatever everyone else is saying. Whatever gets us our fix.
And anyone reading this disagrees, I would ask you how often you look at your profile to make sure your comments are all getting upvotes… Social media has been programming us for years. And this is now what it looks like. Radicalisation of the left and right, to the point we raging over people using bathrooms, finding joy in other peoples misery, and worst of all we are ignoring the real world for it. We all need a big reset to rehinge our damaged brain function.
Fuck yeah I’m happy Kirk is dead. He was a mass murderer, he just did it with a camera instead of a knife. I take glee in knowing his reign of terror is at an end, and I think it’s funny that he was stopped halfway through making an asinine point about transgender gun violence.
Yeah, thats just ghoulish behaviour. And youve made up some nonsense to justify it. And funny thing is, you look exactly like those MAGA fuck wits. You just have a differing point of view. The moment you forget theres a human being on the other end, is the same moment you become the very thing you hate.
But you do, brobeans. Whatever gets you those worthless internet points, am I right?
A man who ordered the deaths of millions of people is something to celebrate. The murder of a man who just didnt agree with you isnt. I’d say I was shocked, but the internet is full of internet tough guys.
In October 2023, an English instructor at Arizona State University, who was listed on the Professor Watchlist and was a co-founder of Drag Story Hour Arizona, was followed across ASU by a two-member TPUSA crew repeatedly asking him accusatory questions; he was pushed onto concrete from the back after appearing to try to push away a camera.[98][99] The instructor, David Boyles, said the resulting wounds to his face were “relatively minor” and said the incident occurred after his class about LGBTQ+ youth in pop culture and politics.[98][100] ASU’s president said TPUSA was at fault for harassment and violence,[101] while TPUSA posts on social media blamed Boyles.[98] ASU’s president said he had previously contacted TPUSA in order to have professors at the school removed from the Professor Watchlist but was not given a response.[100][101]
Kirk ordered harassment and violence against academics who teach students that queer people exist
After the 2020 election, Kirk disputed the results and denied that Trump had lost.[134] On January 4, 2021, Kirk announced in a tweet that Turning Point Action would be sending more than 80 buses to a January 6, 2021, Trump “Stop the Steal” rally near the White House in Washington, D.C., to protest the outcome of the election.[135][136][137][138] They sent seven buses with approximately 350 participants.[135] Turning Point Action also funneled money to several “Stop the Steal” rally speakers, including Kimberly Guilfoyle, but did not organize or take part in the march to the Capitol that erupted in violence.[9][139] The rally, which was attended by several thousand Trump supporters, ended in a riot and the attack at the U.S. Capitol, where Biden’s win was about to be certified.[136] Kirk later deleted the tweet[137] and said on his podcast that it was “bad judgment” and “not wise” to enter the Capitol but not necessarily insurrectionist.[140] A Turning Point Action spokesman later said the group condemns political violence.[136]
Kirk supported Trump’s attempted coup of the government
In December 2017, The New Yorker published an article by Jane Mayer showcasing interviews with former minority members of TPUSA. Former staff members said they witnessed widespread discrimination against minorities in the group; “the organization was a difficult workplace and rife with tension, some of it racial,” The New Yorker said.[14][141] One former employee, an African-American woman, said she was the only person of color working for the organization at the time she was hired in 2014; she then said that she was fired on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
Kirk is a racist boss
Several former employees and student volunteers for Turning Point USA claimed they had witnessed collusion between high-ranking Turning Point USA employees – including Kirk himself and top advisor Ginni Thomas – and the presidential campaigns of both Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. The interactions included Kirk coordinating via email with two officials at a pro-Cruz super PAC to send student volunteers to work for the PAC in South Carolina, as well as two students being requested by Thomas herself, via voicemail, to distribute over 200 Cruz placards in Wisconsin.[14] A former employee for TPUSA, who had been based in Florida, alleged that Turning Point USA had given the personal information of over 700 student supporters to an employee with Rubio’s presidential campaign.[14]
Kirk helped conservative politicians get elected through collusion
In 2021, Kirk compared Biden’s vaccination efforts to an “Apartheid-style open air hostage situation”, even though co-founder Bill Montgomery had died the previous year from COVID-related health complications.[10][156][157] The organization also made misleading claims about the dangers of catching COVID-19. Kirk’s spokesperson said they are not anti-vaxx, reiterating that “the vaccine makes logical sense for millions of Americans” but they should “have the freedom to choose”. Kirk was advocating against vaccine mandates and passports for healthy young people.[10]
Kirk is a spreader of plague
In 2017, Jane Mayer of The New Yorker described two separate actions by TPUSA staff in the 2016 election that appear to have violated campaign finance regulations.[14] Kirk denied any wrongdoing and said it was “completely ludicrous and ridiculous that there’s some sort of secret plan”.[14] TPUSA attorney Sally Wagenmaker refuted allegations of campaign finance irregularities in an article published by ProPublica in July 2020, stating that “payments to businesses belonging to organization officials ‘provided a compelling operational benefit in Turning Point USA’s best and other interests,’ and that they were ‘in full compliance with TPUSA’s IRS-compliant conflict of interest policy.’”[165]
Kirk is in trouble with the government for tax evasion in connection with funding fascist politicians
It’s so funny how Charlie Kirk’s “legacy” is being absolutely whitewashed. He was not a man who you simply disagreed with. He was a vile, hateful man, who spread his white supremacist rhetoric to college students around the nation. He along with his supporters would frequently harass transgender and students of color before speaking at universities. Hell, I doubt he’s even read the Bible, but supposedly he would’ve been a disciple of Jesus Christ if you listen to this shit.
Mob violence has been a thing for all of human history. Before humans, even: chimpanzee groups, if they get large, will split into two groups. After a few months apart, if the groups encounter each other, the stronger group will murder every individual in the weaker one.
I think we had settled on a regulated and normalized system in pre-internet media that moderated the mob violence tendencies. Our current polarization is not really that social media created this new thing in society, it’s that it removed the guardrails in traditional media that were suppressing natural human tendencies. I hope we can figure out and implement some new guardrails sooner rather than later.
Nah, I dont by that. Thats the same kind of logic that rapists use. “She was wearing a short skirt, and I just couldnt help myself”. The fact is, social media in its current form is basically using gambling mechanics to get everyone to do weird shit. Comments on reddit, or facebook, or twitter are basically one armed bandits. Each tuck/comment is hoping for a win to get a little dopamine hit. Thats the long and the short of it. This has been going on for so long now, that people are radicalised by it.
Well then if you ever ate meat, you were never a good person. But I think people can be corrupted and they can be redeemed, and people who eat meat because society encourages it can be rehabilitated.
Eating meat is mean, it’s just an example of a bad thing a lot of people do. The point is we’ve all done bad things, but we can all be redeemed if we stop doing bad things. Like eating meat.
they’re dead before they’re butchered. they’re butchered before they’re sold. eating meat can’t possibly be mean. a dead butchered animal doesn’t need it’s meat.
Systems are made of people. So yeah, remove the bad actors and you already have a better system.
Fair point. My rebuttal: The system here is manifold, a lack of general awareness and understanding, the legislative framework in most places, and most importantly, capitalism. The owners of social media are the most replaceable part of that, if Meta and Zuck imploded today, some other for-profit crap would fill the void
Systems are also made of rules, and bad rules can turn good people into bad people. That’s kind of the point of critical race theory
People have to make the rules, and choose if they enforce them, and choose if they obey them. Ultimately, it comes back to people.
Yeah, but psychological factors decide whether people obey and conform, as demonstrated by Milgram and Asch. Changing the situation changes whether they’ll go along with a bad system.
Good people don’t turn into bad people. By default that rules them out of being good people.
Our brains are hard-wired to be susceptible to specific patterns. Ancestral humans who stayed in good graces with their social group, even when the leaders of that group were factually mistaken, survived at higher rates than humans whose respect for facts drove them to reject or be rejected by the group. The details of which and to what degree we have these triggers override our rationality varies by genetics and environment, but we are all susceptible.
That a very significant percent of humans respond to their system by adopting specific harmful behavior is not something we can fight by moral condemnation. Labeling them as bad people is unproductive. If the goal is to actually reduce the harmful behavior, addressing the system - not the individuals - is the only effective strategy.
Everyone has a price, and everyone can be led down the wrong path. I mean, the supposed “good guys” in all of this were laughing and cheering at a man being murdered in front of his wife and kids just last week. I wonder how many of them, even just 5 years ago, would have done that? But they see the assholes on the “bad side do it” and all of sudden its ok.
Social media has fucked all of our brains. whether its tiktok, facebook reddit, instagram, lemmy, whatever. Its made us weird about information, and the opinions that we have. The downvotes give us little dopamine hits. So we start to want the uparrows. Then we get weird about the uparrows, moaning that people are misunderstanding what we are saying. Then we cant risk the uparrows, so we just say whatever everyone else is saying. Whatever gets us our fix.
And anyone reading this disagrees, I would ask you how often you look at your profile to make sure your comments are all getting upvotes… Social media has been programming us for years. And this is now what it looks like. Radicalisation of the left and right, to the point we raging over people using bathrooms, finding joy in other peoples misery, and worst of all we are ignoring the real world for it. We all need a big reset to rehinge our damaged brain function.
Fuck yeah I’m happy Kirk is dead. He was a mass murderer, he just did it with a camera instead of a knife. I take glee in knowing his reign of terror is at an end, and I think it’s funny that he was stopped halfway through making an asinine point about transgender gun violence.
We need to label MAGA a terrorist organization, then go after them as if they are ISIS, then go global: AfD, the oil industry, etc.
All should be labeled terrorists.
Pretty sure you already are, mate.
Yeah, thats just ghoulish behaviour. And youve made up some nonsense to justify it. And funny thing is, you look exactly like those MAGA fuck wits. You just have a differing point of view. The moment you forget theres a human being on the other end, is the same moment you become the very thing you hate.
But you do, brobeans. Whatever gets you those worthless internet points, am I right?
Did my great grandpa shoot Nazis at D-day because it was popular? Was he just chasing trends?
BTW the fact that Hitler shot himself is hilarious
A man who ordered the deaths of millions of people is something to celebrate. The murder of a man who just didnt agree with you isnt. I’d say I was shocked, but the internet is full of internet tough guys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point_USA#United_States_election_activities
Kirk ordered harassment and violence against academics who teach students that queer people exist
Kirk supported Trump’s attempted coup of the government
Kirk is a racist boss
Kirk helped conservative politicians get elected through collusion
Kirk is a spreader of plague
Kirk is in trouble with the government for tax evasion in connection with funding fascist politicians
It’s so funny how Charlie Kirk’s “legacy” is being absolutely whitewashed. He was not a man who you simply disagreed with. He was a vile, hateful man, who spread his white supremacist rhetoric to college students around the nation. He along with his supporters would frequently harass transgender and students of color before speaking at universities. Hell, I doubt he’s even read the Bible, but supposedly he would’ve been a disciple of Jesus Christ if you listen to this shit.
Mob violence has been a thing for all of human history. Before humans, even: chimpanzee groups, if they get large, will split into two groups. After a few months apart, if the groups encounter each other, the stronger group will murder every individual in the weaker one.
I think we had settled on a regulated and normalized system in pre-internet media that moderated the mob violence tendencies. Our current polarization is not really that social media created this new thing in society, it’s that it removed the guardrails in traditional media that were suppressing natural human tendencies. I hope we can figure out and implement some new guardrails sooner rather than later.
Nah, I dont by that. Thats the same kind of logic that rapists use. “She was wearing a short skirt, and I just couldnt help myself”. The fact is, social media in its current form is basically using gambling mechanics to get everyone to do weird shit. Comments on reddit, or facebook, or twitter are basically one armed bandits. Each tuck/comment is hoping for a win to get a little dopamine hit. Thats the long and the short of it. This has been going on for so long now, that people are radicalised by it.
Well then if you ever ate meat, you were never a good person. But I think people can be corrupted and they can be redeemed, and people who eat meat because society encourages it can be rehabilitated.
So all those people who are medically unable to follow a vegan diet are evil because…
Because they are a cursed creature of the night, doomed to forever dine on the blood of virgins.
Oh wait, that’s vampires. And people who need meat to live are different from vampires because… Okay help me out here, what’s the difference?
they’re different because they are people, and they are real.
How is it meats problem here?
Eating meat is mean, it’s just an example of a bad thing a lot of people do. The point is we’ve all done bad things, but we can all be redeemed if we stop doing bad things. Like eating meat.
Trump and Hitler too?
eating meat is not mean
Yes it is. Animals need that meat inside their bodies, taking it is stealing.
they’re dead before they’re butchered. they’re butchered before they’re sold. eating meat can’t possibly be mean. a dead butchered animal doesn’t need it’s meat.