US Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is gearing up for a potential Senate or presidential run in 2028, igniting excitement among progressives nationwide. #AOC2028
US Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is gearing up for a potential Senate or presidential run in 2028, igniting excitement among progressives nationwide. #AOC2028
Well she certainly has the qualifications! (Being a sell out and a genocide apologist)
I agree that the distinction between defensive and offensive aid is little more than a rhetorical trick, but that’s a long ways from being a “genocide apologist”. To my knowledge, she does not deny that Israel is committing a genocide, and she does not pretend that it’s justified. I think it’s fair to call Biden a genocide apologist because he actively participated in obfuscating the reality of what was happening and attacking critics.
Foreign policy is complicated, and there is room for someone to think pragmatically that cutting off “defensive aid” will make things worse instead of better. I disagree with that someone, but I’d much rather have them as opposition than someone who is principally in favor of a Genocide.
If you know what they’re doing, and she knows what they’re doing, and you know she knows what they’re doing, then we should all be fairly clear that she’s not absolving herself from complicity.
In the case of the US-Israel relationship, the financials are more complicated than the foreign policy, and there are no consequential earmarks. The input is either more funding, or less funding.
From one approach, if the US funds Israel’s Iron Dome, Israel will have more money from not spending their own on defenses, and what they didn’t have to spend on defensive weapons, they will then spend on offensive weapons. This chain of causality is fairly direct and reasonable to trace, IMHO. In fact, it’s quite possible that they directly route gifts for defensive weapons into offensive weapons- this is Israel we’re talking about, they’re not known for engaging in good faith.
From a second approach, her vote for Iron Dome spending signals that she is holding out for the chance that both sides will de-escalate willingly, and that a peaceful agreement can be negotiated from current positions. This is wishful thinking.
From a third approach, the only thing we have seen with the potential to end the genocide is intervention by Hezbollah, Ansar Allah, or especially Iran. Any prospect of the US, the EU, or an alliance of Arab states putting an end to the genocide militarily is completely without precedent and infeasible. Israel continues to maim Gaza because its economy is still running, and its economy is still running because it has diplomatic ties and defensive systems. If they are subjected to a large number of missiles, their citizens will be forced to permanently retreat to bomb shelters; this will shut down the economy and persuade Israelis to repatriate to their countries of origin (or Germany and the US will take them), because they are wealthy enough and a large fraction of them have dual citizenship. This is the one thing that will certainly end the genocide, running out their defenses until they are confronted with the same onslaught that they have waged against Palestinians. It’s not pretty or peaceful and a few people might die in-between the bomb shelters, but this is how genocides are stopped. The day that Israel runs out of interceptors and the Shahed drones keep flying in is the day they will start negotiating the end of the genocide. Funding defensive missile capacities is simply staving that day off. It is not an intervention that directly kills people, but it is still an American intervention in the Middle East that makes the situation worse and demonstrably causes more innocent people to die.
To be sure, there are several different levels of genocide apologia, and AOC is a few levels down on the scale from your average Republican. But she’s still not clearing the bar for ethical foreign policy. The bar is to treat Israel with at least the same level of response that was given to Russia when it invaded/escalated the war in Ukraine.
It’s really not complicated. It’s only complication is concern for aipac money.
Also you’re saying she is aware it’s a genocide and still approved the sale of weapons to a genocidal regime
AOC has rejected all AIPAC money. Of course they could run dark money ads for her anyways but, if you think that’s likely to happen, you are delusional.
Every foreign policy decision has ramifications that go far beyond the immediate. Israel isn’t going to not have a missile defense shield so, if they don’t get it from us, they will get it from someone else. Maybe Russia, China, or Europe. How does that shake out on the world stage?
Just to clarify again because I’m sure it’s necessary, I do not approve of sending any aid to Israel. I just don’t think that disagreeing with me automatically makes someone a genocide apologist. The world isn’t that simple.
I guess we have no choice then participate in genocide. Good analysis comrade.
What makes you think these should be included in this list?
Not what I said. Fuck off edgelord.
How else should I interpret that?
I don’t care. You’re going on my block list.
Removed by mod
Russia and China have been diplomatically opposing this genocide (I would argue with insufficient effort, but still they are the other side of the fence and recognize Palestine and receive Hamas delegations)
Why would you knee jerk throw them in the “bad guy” genocidal category when it’s YOU and YOUR POLITICIAN that are actually funding and sending the bombs that kill children? Do you not understand the irony and how chauvinistic this comes off?
I dunno, why would you say I did that?
Rule number one of foreign policy is that countries don’t have friends, they have interests. Russia and China have the position they do because they think it’s to their advantage. Both of them are guilty of their own genocides, some ongoing. They are no more the “good guys” than the US. If they decide it’s in their interests to sell weapons to Israel, that’s exactly what they will do.
do tell
You post one Uighur body for every Palestinian body I post. How long do you think you can keep up?
Hexbear is cancer.
Mad that your made up genocide has to compete against a real one with a death toll?
Ok, so? If U.S. does that and even if other countries starts arming them, U.S. will at least have a moral high ground.
There is no evidence any of these countries will give Israel weapons btw.
If there is an arms embargo, Israeli economy tanks since much of it is propped up on the U.S. being the backstop.
Fuck me. I knew that telling you that I don’t want any aid for Israel wouldn’t stop you from trying to convince me. Why the fuck don’t I pay attention to what my brain is telling me?
That was a “for instance”. The point was that any position in foreign policy is going to have more than one impact. I wasn’t making a full argument, and why would I when I already agree with you?
Once maybe. The fact is that the US and Israeli arms industries have commingled and each relies on the other for different expertise. A full arms embargo would certainly lead to at least the risk of Israel trading arms secrets for access to weapons made elsewhere. Israel is not a passive purchaser of weapons or intelligence technology.
We don’t believe you because you support a politician that funds the genocide and use Liberal Zionist arguments we have heard a million times from genocidal liberals
And I think your just a Republican stirring up shit because you spend all your time attacking the very few Democrats who actually acknowledge the genocide.
I have never once even “supported” AOC in this discussion. Pointing out that she isn’t a genocide apologist isn’t support, it’s just reality.
I do personally support her because (among other things) she is better than any Republican or Democrat likely to replace her. If you have a better candidate then I say “great!”. Run them against Pelosi, Schumer, or any one of hundreds of Democrats that are worse on this and a myriad of other issues.
That’s the difference between you and I. You want to aura farm off of tragedy while I want to do something productive to end it. If you actually have a shit, you wouldn’t be wasting your time attacking the Democrats closest to your position. Replace AOC with your perfect candidate and you will have achieved absolutely nothing.
“If you hate the party that is complicit in Palestinian genocide then you must belong to the other party that is also complicit in Palestinian genocide. I literally cannot imagine anyone having a principled opposition to genocide.”
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a Republican” and other calming fantasies to soothe the panicking Liberal mind
The gap between how much you know and how much you think you know could fit a small celestial body
This “reality” isn’t supported by reality. She is a liberal Zionist and Zionism demands the extermination and ethnic cleaning of Palestinians in order to function. You don’t support defensive weapons while being anti-genocide when those defensive weapons aid in furthering the genocide.
No, the entire economy is propped by the U.S. backstop. Israeli bonds, currency, financial assets are valued highly because U.S. defends it. It’s not always as explicit as military ‘aid’.
Also, if these are the kind of arguments AOC is thinking about, she deserves to lose. I’m not attacking you, but AOC.
I couldn’t care less what AOC deserves. There is no realistic scenario where AOC gets replaced with somebody better on Gaza. Meanwhile there are Hundreds of Democrats that desperately need replacing and could actually swing the balance, but we get stuck in-fighting over AOC. I want things to get better, and you aren’t helping.
What does that have to do with anything I mentioned? Did I say anything about other Democrats?
I don’t care if you’re convinced, but I would like to know if this is because you think what is happening there is some degree of morally unacceptable, or if you just think the money would be better spent at home.
Edit:
You don’t have to respond to this but this is for the benefit of others reading.
In AOC’s case, you have claimed she believes it is a genocide. If she does in fact believe it is a genocide, then she is providing material support (money and weapons), directly to what she believes is a genocide. She is a member of Congress and could use that position to passively sit by with an ineffective protest no vote or even voting present/abstaining in every instance (although you could still argue someone like this should at least be doing more personally, in the end, policies are what matter for elected officials), to what she believes is an actual genocide. Thus, “genocide supporter” logically follows.
If she does not believe it is a genocide, but she thinks it is morally problematic, then while perhaps the label “genocide supporter” could be put into slight contention (those that read Israeli officials’ own statements such as this one 2 months ago on the matter would probably ask how AOC came to another conclusion), it is still in turn problematic that she would materially support something that she believes is morally problematic, and you should find this unacceptable.
If on the other hand, she does not find anything morally problematic there at all, but you think it is at minimum morally unacceptable, then isn’t that a legitimate criticism of an elected official who is supposed to represent her constituents to say that you think they are supporting something that you find to be morally unacceptable?
You might want to look further into this one, hoss.
The GOP is manipulating you into hating those aligned with your interests.
I am literally a communist, the GOP couldn’t manipulate me into anything. I hate basically all American politicians because they are all servants of imperialism and enemies of the working class. Have fun cheering for
as they sit and do nothing while people get rounded up into camps (this is literally already happening btw not some hyperbolic future)
Also, “defensive” funding for Israel is still supporting the genocide. Israel’s belief in its own impunity (thanks to things like the iron dome) gives it confidence to commit endless atrocities because they don’t fear proportional consequences.
Also, Israel shouldn’t be defended. Rogue states that commit genocide have no right to exist as far as I’m concerned.
And yet you seem to be unable to comprehend the situation, instead needlessly hating the people that could (and try to) help you.
They don’t have schools in communist glimmer_twin town?
EDIT: You should know that I’m regularly reduced to tears at the atrocities. I’m not your enemy but you’re making it so very hard to be your friend.
I’m really using the word “you” to address all of those with your outlook. It’s not a personal attack.
Would you support someone who supports arming police to carry out a genocide in Portland?
No?
Then why would you support someone who supports arming IDF to carry out a genocide in Gaza?
What is the material difference that causes you to not support one thing, but support the other?
Nationalism. You are a nationalist. You just do not realise it.
You support american supremacism, as long as it comes with the promise that it will improve your life. You support genocide in Gaza if a politician will tell you they’ll make your life better while they do it.
You don’t support it in Portland because then it would be happening to AMERICANS.
You are a nationalist and you are an American supremacist.
In what way is giving a mass murderer body armor a form of “helping”?
Misrepresenting what I’ve said so far doesn’t exactly make you look honest.
Rejecting a clear and obvious analogy for what you’re saying doesn’t exactly make you look like you have the intelligence to operate a doorknob
It’s a counter-argument that has nothing to do with the initial statement. Hence, dishonest.
It would seem everyone here (including you) is simply dedicated to being angry and decided I’m a great target for that anger. Do you need a mirror?
Whatever gymnastics you’re doing in your twisted little head about what you initially said or meant, the analogy RedWizard used is appropriate to the real world situation so you can get fucked.
And you can get fucked twice for projecting yourself onto all of us by way of being a genocide supporter (but :< you cry) coming to troll and acting like we’re all just congenitally angry.
If the subject trying to help In your previous statement is AOC my comment still stands.
If its you I don’t see how you are trying to help? AOC has been running defence in her own capacity for Israel: https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/media/press-releases/monday-rep-aoc-host-livestream-antisemitism-and-fight-democracy
In this stream she conflates anti-zionism with antisemitism.
She lost support from the DSA: https://www.dsausa.org/statements/status-of-dsa-national-endorsement-for-rep-ocasio-cortez/
She seems to do this for the love of the game.
Ok.
What’s wrong?
Removed by mod
No, I’m perfectly aware of the GOP hate campaign. But I dislike her for her actions. I want a progressive/socialist. Not a fake progressive.
Man, I think this is so silly. I’m not here to argue with you. Enjoy your day.
Not here to argue with people but here to say they’re brainwashed. People who are way fucking smarter than you, by the way!
Has anyone recently called you a piece of shit? Because you are one!
Take ownership of your fucking actions you cowardly fucking piece of shit.
Oh wow. Anything else you’d like to say to your therapist?
Removed by mod
Ok.
You must be fun at parties
Perhaps stay away from cliches if trying to establish original thought.
Good thing money isn’t fungible or the distinction between defensive and offensive weapons funding would be meaningless
Didn’t read the link, eh?
No matter, you don’t need to make excuses to be angry. Just be angry. It’s cool.
Bro what I read the link and directly responded to its content. AOC’s defense amounts to “I didn’t give them money for crack, I gave them money for food”
Ok.